View Poll Results: Is founding fatherism a religion?

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    34 61.82%
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Thread: Is founding fatherism a religion?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    An intelligent man should take in all of the world's philosophies from Jesus to Marx, Plato to Socrates, Kant to the "earthworm" and think /reason/mull..
    Of course this is impossible, there is never enough time and interest...
    And of course our founding fathers must be considered; but to base an argument on "this is what Adams would do" , or Jefferson's thoughts, is intellectually lazy...
    And to turn their(founding fathers) thoughts/philosophies into a religion is worse.

  2. #62
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    An intelligent man should take in all of the world's philosophies from Jesus to Marx, Plato to Socrates, Kant to the "earthworm" and think /reason/mull..
    Of course this is impossible, there is never enough time and interest...
    And of course our founding fathers must be considered; but to base an argument on "this is what Adams would do" , or Jefferson's thoughts, is intellectually lazy...
    And to turn their(founding fathers) thoughts/philosophies into a religion is worse.
    Nice saying..who said it originally?
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  3. #63
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If we allowed the reinterpretation of the Constitution, ignoring what the founding fathers said, then we would not have the right to bear arms and there would not be a seperation of church and state.

    Adding to ideas is a good thing yes. But if an idea was great then why allow something which could change that great ideaProhitition as an example? into a bad idea?
    The reason for the Supreme Court of the United States.
    Nothing is beyond improvement, NOTHING.
    Even yesterday's great idea could be today's POS.

  4. #64
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Your evidence, sir.

    Democrats to push reinstatement of Fairness Doctrine



    Actually the Constitution only says that there is to be no state sponsored religion and that's purdy much it. It says nothing about intermingling of religion and state.
    Strangely, I agree.
    In truth, religion and state have been intermingled since day one, but it is more or less controlled.
    I'll have to research this "Fairness Doctrine".

  5. #65
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    The reason for the Supreme Court of the United States.
    Nothing is beyond improvement, NOTHING.
    Even yesterday's great idea could be today's POS.
    You can improve upon an idea without changing the idea. If you want something changed then that requires an amendment. Reinterpretation is changing one thing to another.

    And I would challenge you to prove that any of the original 10 amendments are not as applicable to today as they were 230 years ago.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    The founders are not so much a religion as they are a fantasy. They were revolutionaries first, then became statesmen out of pure necessity (once the war was won, somebody had to set up a new government). As revolutionaries they were for change. Monumental change. George Washington's own Mother disowned him because he wouldn't stop going to those clandestine "overthrow the government' meetings. Conservatives today should look deep inside themselves and realize that they wouldn't have been on board with that kind of far left-wing change.

    Once Independence was in the bag, they rounded up the most educated colonists that they could find. This included individuals from the full political spectrum.

    These founders did not invent democracy. They had simply studied all forms of government up until their present day, using the best selections gleaned from their knowledge of present and past civilizations. They had escaped a monarchy. They were steadfast in their agreement that government would never again rise up tyrannically against the will of the people.

    Their three branches of government with the system of checks and balances is still a monumental stroke of genius.

    Many colonists had come to this continent to escape religious persecution. The founders simply made religion untouchable by the government.

    The whole Bill of Rights is really just a laundry list that was accidentally omitted from the constitution. The fact that the constitution is amendable is proof that the founders knew that neither could they foresee all impending necessities of the new government, they were wanting their idea of a near perfect democracy (republic) to be able to be corrected until the end of time.

    They knew that anything that they stated would be subject to re-approval time and time again.

    Taking direct quotes from ~1781 and using them as "religion" is a fools errand that our founders would not have sanctioned.
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  7. #67
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Until the constitution has been amended then the only interpretation and how it is applied that matters is the founding forefathers.
    Again, I strongly disagree with this. There is not a single 'right' interpretation of the constitution. We are free to interpret it in the way that is most beneficial to us.
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It is far more beneficial to us to leave it as it is.
    Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. And I even agree with you in some cases. I don't think that that is true in every case though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    As I already gave an example of, if you start reinterpreting what the Constitution says today then there is a very real possibility that we, as citizens, would no longer have the right to bear arms.
    What do you mean IF we start reinterpreting the constitution? That happens all the time, and we haven't lost the right to bear arms yet.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    In a debate today, someone tried to settle a point by referencing what one of the founding fathers thought about it instead of arguing the point on its own merits.

    Is there some sort of religion out there that I am not aware of that considers these guys the end all and be all of argumentation as opposed to a person using their own reasoning?
    Are you saying you are smarter than the founding fathers about the topic being debated at the time? That isn't a trick question, and you may feel the valid answer is yes. It's ok if you answer that way, but people will judge the validity of your own argument based on your self-assessment. It's not religion to defer to what we consider to be a higher authority. If it was, then most science, economics, and government debates would actually be religious ones. For example, how many common non-scientist evolutionists know nearly as much about anything scientific as the scientists who feed them information? Yet most debates with evolutionists end with them saying they aren't scientists, but they know the scientists are right.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Why is there so much talk and debate about the USA Constitution? If it means whatever the majority at any particular time want it to mean, it is obviously not worth anything.

    Why not just forget the Constitution and follow whatever laws Congress chooses to enact?

    .
    Last edited by TOJ; 12-31-10 at 04:37 PM.

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