View Poll Results: Is founding fatherism a religion?

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Thread: Is founding fatherism a religion?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    In a debate today, someone tried to settle a point by referencing what one of the founding fathers thought about it instead of arguing the point on its own merits.

    Is there some sort of religion out there that I am not aware of that considers these guys the end all and be all of argumentation as opposed to a person using their own reasoning?
    No, it's just that the founders were 1000 times smarter than you.
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Some people (mostly conservatives) feel that the founding fathers' opinions on government should trump those of people alive today. I'm inclined to disagree. While I think their opinions should be respected, I believe that they should be given less weight than the people alive today who actually have to live under our government.
    Well no kidding, you like to run the constitution through a paper shredder, because you know it all better.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #33
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Well, take the constitution word for word, except for that whole separation of church and state of course
    Yeah, and healthcare.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #34
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Well no kidding, you like to run the constitution through a paper shredder, because you know it all better.
    ??? What the hell are you even talking about? I like to run the constitution through a paper shredder? Because I know it better? Better than who?

    I'm guessing from your scattered and confusing post, that you think I'm saying I want to just get rid of the constitution because I think I'm more familiar with it than the founding fathers are? I've never claimed that. I'm not a constitutional scholar. However, I fulfill 2 important criteria that the founding fathers do not. 1: I'm alive and capable of making decisions based on the world as it is today, they are not. 2: I have to live under the government that is based on the constitution and the way it is interpreted, they do not. By all means, we should rely on the founding fathers to determine the original intent and interpretation of the constitution. We just shouldn't let that original intent stop us from interpreting it differently today if doing so is beneficial.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Maybe it does maybe it doesn't. I do not know. However this is not the same as blatantly ignoring an amendment or blatantly misinterpreting the constitution to create rights that do not exist or to take away rights without first amending the constitution.
    It is a good thing we have a court system then who has the legal responsibility to handle such matters.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    ??? What the hell are you even talking about? I like to run the constitution through a paper shredder? Because I know it better? Better than who?

    I'm guessing from your scattered and confusing post, that you think I'm saying I want to just get rid of the constitution because I think I'm more familiar with it than the founding fathers are? I've never claimed that. I'm not a constitutional scholar. However, I fulfill 2 important criteria that the founding fathers do not. 1: I'm alive and capable of making decisions based on the world as it is today, they are not. 2: I have to live under the government that is based on the constitution and the way it is interpreted, they do not. By all means, we should rely on the founding fathers to determine the original intent and interpretation of the constitution. We just shouldn't let that original intent stop us from interpreting it differently today if doing so is beneficial.
    Do you think that it is ok to rewrite history?
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  7. #37
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Do you think that it is ok to rewrite history?
    Who said anything about rewriting history?
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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  8. #38
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    The founding fathers believed all sorts of different things and were very smart men, but they had flaws. And we have had to change the Constitution (via Amendments) to specifically change certain things that were set up via the Constitution or ensure that they were applied to every citizen in every state (voting rights, equal protection, full faith and credit, etc.), but that doesn't mean that everything that wasn't considered a right back then should also be denied to people now. Times have changed and that is specifically why the 9th Amendment is in the Constitution anyway. The founding fathers were smart enough to realize that they could not anticipate every right that would have to be protected. And, some of them, probably even figured that times would change to include things that they wouldn't have considered.

    Many people that argue on the basis of "what the founding fathers want" don't seem to realize that those who provided much of the foundation for the Constitution also realized that times would change and the citizens should not have to change the Constitution every time the government doesn't agree with what they are doing. In fact, it should be the government's job to change the Constitution whenever it wants to prevent someone from doing something (that doesn't obviously interfere with the rights of another/other citizens).

    Although I don't believe that the Prohibition Amendment was a good thing, I do agree with the process with which it was implemented. This is how the government should restrict any activity/right/privilege/whatever that doesn't obviously impact another citizen's rights. Changing the Constitution requires a lot more votes and support than simply making a law/act to restrict a person's rights (even those not enumerated specifically by the Constitution), and I believe that that is exactly what the founding fathers wanted.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  9. #39
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    In some ways it is, just like environmentalism is very religious in it's adherence for some. Honestly, the founding fathers were just men, they could not possibly have conceived of the modern world, therefore their views are largely irrelevant today. Anything they had to say, outside of the vaguest of concepts, doesn't mean jack squat in the modern world.

    But don't tell that to the neo-conservative wingnuts.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #40
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Who said anything about rewriting history?
    By reinterpreting the Constitution beyond that of what the founding fathers prescribed you are rewriting history. So in essence, you did.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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