View Poll Results: Is founding fatherism a religion?

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  • No

    34 61.82%
  • Yes

    13 23.64%
  • What you say?!

    8 14.55%
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Thread: Is founding fatherism a religion?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    If a majority feels this way, then it is only right that this is the direction civilization turns.
    This is where the founding fathers opinions trump your opinion. The law is the law and the constitution is the supreme law of the land. Just because you think “it is only right” doesn’t cut muster.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  2. #92
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    This is where the founding fathers opinions trump your opinion. The law is the law and the constitution is the supreme law of the land. Just because you think “it is only right” doesn’t cut muster.
    One tip for making a good argument is to support it with reason and not just state your opinion.

  3. #93
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    One tip for making a good argument is to support it with reason and not just state your opinion.
    The reason should obvious. You would prefer to subvert the constitution rather than amend it, as provided for by our founding fathers

    Didn’t you create this thread so you could bash the constitution a little more?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  4. #94
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Completely untrue. The supreme court exists to interpret the constitution.
    The Supreme Courts exists to make decisions based on the constitution. Again if you wish to remove a right,add a right or to severely restrict a right there is an amendment process for that. Making up what something means wit the hogwash living document is just a cop lout anti-constitutional libs like to use in order to circumvent the amendment process.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #95
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    [QUOTE=megaprogman;1059187066

    Is there some sort of religion out there that I am not aware of that considers these guys the end all and be all of argumentation as opposed to a person using their own reasoning?[/QUOTE]

    Nope, just people locked into history and fantasy that need guidance because they can't or won't guide themselves.

    If I had the time and inclination, I'd write a simplified version of the constitution so the average 14 year old could understand it and stand up in a people's court of law.

    For starters, no words are "self evident." I would have said, "In terms most people understand, can relate with."

    ricksfolly

  6. #96
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The Supreme Courts exists to make decisions based on the constitution.
    Um, actually, no. Over its long history, it has also considered English common law, natural law, and common sense. I wouldn't be surprised if they also considered international law, especially in that which comes in the form of treaties ratified by the Federal government.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Again if you wish to remove a right,add a right or to severely restrict a right there is an amendment process for that. Making up what something means wit the hogwash living document is just a cop lout anti-constitutional libs like to use in order to circumvent the amendment process.
    The 9th and 10th Amendments go a long way towards acknowledging that there are rights protected by the Constitution that were not specifically enumerated -- mainly because, at the time the Constitution was being batted around, a lot of very smart people were worried that spelling out specific rights would result in the loss of rights not specifically spelled out.
    Last edited by TacticalEvilDan; 01-01-11 at 05:28 PM.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #97
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post



    The 9th and 10th Amendments go a long way towards acknowledging that there are rights protected by the Constitution that were not specifically enumerated -- mainly because, at the time the Constitution was being batted around, a lot of very smart people were worried that spelling out specific rights would result in the loss of rights not specifically spelled out.
    So if I claim that I have the right to make you pay for my t-bone steak dinner then it is a right? I can claim the 9th amendment gives me that right?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #98
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Nope, just people locked into history and fantasy that need guidance because they can't or won't guide themselves.

    If I had the time and inclination, I'd write a simplified version of the constitution so the average 14 year old could understand it and stand up in a people's court of law.

    For starters, no words are "self evident." I would have said, "In terms most people understand, can relate with."

    ricksfolly
    Truths... We find these truths to be self evident.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  9. #99
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So if I claim that I have the right to make you pay for my t-bone steak dinner then it is a right? I can claim the 9th amendment gives me that right?
    I guess you're not familiar with the 9th Amendment, then. Or the 5th.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #100
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    Re: Is founding fatherism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Sometimes yes, but humans are instinctive civilization builders. Societies will muddle through and in some ways be better and in some ways be worse, than our country.



    There will always be monsters, regardless on how we come down on the founding father question. However, this does bring up an interesting way to show my point about belief. I have seen several people here say (to paraphrase) "I believe the constitution should be interpreted a certain way because I believe that certain things are important". Basically saying that they have certain beliefs and they want the constitution to reflect those beliefs. This is something I have seen people from all labels write. Ultimately, it is about belief and the strongest belief winning. Extremist muslims are another example of this. Every set of beliefs has its use, benefits, and problems and often beliefs that work well in certain scenarios do not work well in others.
    The end result of this fundamental truth is that there are going to be bad people no matter what happens or how we interpret legal documents. What we are trumps what we believe. I have yet to see someone fight for a philosophy or point of view that they think is fundamentally bad for themselves and society (but maybe only one if they are exceptionally good or evil).



    If a majority feels this way, then it is only right that this is the direction civilization turns.
    So if a majority feels slavery is right, you think that makes it only right that civilization turns in that direction?

    Interesting.

    How about human sacrifice? Or honor killing? Or any number of other dispicable things people have supported.

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