Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

[Solace]

The general population believes that they are better than non-Americans and how America is the greatest and most powerful country in the world. And nothing bad has happened because of this. So do you think that extreme nationalism is a bad thing? I didn't post this in the basement, because I'm hoping we can be civil when discussing this.

 

[Kandahar]

Look at America, the general population knows for a fact that they are better than non-Americans and how America is the greatest and most powerful country in the world.

The greatness of a nation can be empirically measured. By some metrics the United States is at the top or near the top (e.g. civil liberties, economic vibrancy, GDP per capita, military power). By other metrics the United States lags far behind our peers (e.g. education, health care, criminal justice, poverty). Waving the flag and proclaiming America to be better than everyone else is ****ing stupid. Most of the people who do that haven't done a damn thing themselves to make America great; they could have just as easily been born in Nigeria.

And nothing bad has happened because of this.

The war in Iraq? Resistance to reforming our health care laws, motivated by the belief that we can't learn anything from other countries? An unwillingness to recognize our crumbling education system as a problem, which makes it difficult to reform? A horrendous criminal justice system that ignores the valuable lessons that our peer countries could teach us?

So do you think that extreme nationalism is a bad thing?

Yes?

 

[OscarB63]

So do you think that extreme nationalism is a bad thing?

let's ask the Nazis.


I can Godwin that thread in 3 posts.

 

[The Mark]

Extreme anything is a bad thing.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Obviously, I would argue that it is a good thing. Nationalism is merely the love of one's own people-- the people to whom one's moral obligations are strongest.

 

[The Mark]

Obviously, I would argue that it is a good thing. Nationalism is merely the love of one's own people-- the people to whom one's moral obligations are strongest.

He said extreme nationalism – nationalism itself is all well and good to a point - but it can be taken too far, IMO.

 

[Solace]

He said extreme nationalism – nationalism itself is all well and good to a point - but it can be taken too far, IMO.

But in America, it's a good thing, yes?

 

[The Mark]

But in America, it's a good thing, yes?

What?

Have you been paying attention to my posts?

 

[Alfons]

The general population believes that they are better than non-Americans and how America is the greatest and most powerful country in the world. And nothing bad has happened because of this. So do you think that extreme nationalism is a bad thing? I didn't post this in the basement, because I'm hoping we can be civil when discussing this.

I support Patriotism, but I am against of extreme Nationalism, it is a bad thing.

 

[Solace]

What?

Have you been paying attention to my posts?

I have, but what was bad? We won the Iraq War. And the health care reform really is a bad thing.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

Obviously, I would argue that it is a good thing. Nationalism is merely the love of one's own people-- the people to whom one's moral obligations are strongest.

You've defined patriotism, not nationalism. The two are very different things. Nationalism is a form of chauvinism. Nationalism is always bad. Patriotism is always good. But to be patriotic, there has to be something worthy of being patriotic about.

 

[Alfons]

But in America, it's a good thing, yes?

America need more Patriotism, more Conservative Values, more Right-Wingers, more Christianity, more Tea Party, more U.S. Constitution, more Palin, Robertson, Limbaugh etc., fewer Obamamunism, but not a new Hitler!

 

[ksu_aviator]

I think a lot of people on both sides of the aisle misinterpret American Exceptional-ism. Being the melting pot of the world, we have incorporated a lot of values from a lot of cultures into one society. What brought about American Exceptional-ism was the freedom to take the best aspects of every culture in the world, mesh them into our society and thrive from the benefits.

That does not mean that a person born or living in America is automatically more exceptional than any individual in any society any where. But, as a function of the freedom that is recognized by the Constitution, we have been able to excel free from the bondage of over bearing governments.

 

[The Mark]

I have, but what was bad? We won the Iraq War. And the health care reform really is a bad thing.

What on earth are you talking about?

How do those things have anything at all to do with what I said?

 

[apdst]

You've defined patriotism, not nationalism. The two are very different things. Nationalism is a form of chauvinism. Nationalism is always bad. Patriotism is always good. But to be patriotic, there has to be something worthy of being patriotic about.

Actually, nationalism and patriotism are purdy much the same thing.

It all boils down to what one thinks is, "extreme". Mussolini didn't think he was being one bit extreme.

 

[spud_meister]

I'm a nationalist, I don't think it's a bad thing, and as long as you don't tie anything else into nationalism, like race or religion, it's not a bad thing at all.

 

[Demon of Light]

As far as I am concerned any ideology based off attachment to an artificial identity is a bad thing.

 

[earthworm]

But in America, it's a good thing, yes?

Oh, its good in America, but not Germany?
Extremism is run-away emotions.
Solace, of you, I wonder...

 

[apdst]

I'm a nationalist, I don't think it's a bad thing, and as long as you don't tie anything else into nationalism, like race or religion, it's not a bad thing at all.

There's nothing wrong with nationalism, as long as it doesn't lead to any sorta stupid ****. Race, religion, color, creed, national origin, political leanings, whatever.

 

[Hatuey]

We should define what extreme is. It's not bad for a country to create a national identity. It's not bad for a country to advocate national unity as a value. That's good because it allows for political cohesion. However when a country advocates cohesion at the cost of say.... a few thousand lives, that's extreme. Nationalism doesn't truly become extreme until people start dying as a result of it.

 

[apdst]

We should define what extreme is. It's not bad for a country to create a national identity. It's not bad for a country to advocate national unity as a value. That's good because it allows for political cohesion. However when a country advocates cohesion at the cost of say.... a few thousand lives, that's extreme. Nationalism doesn't truly become extreme until people start dying as a result of it.

Nationalism can become extreme well before people start dieing because of it. Nationalism went overboard in Facist Italy and there weren't no Holocaust there.

 

[Hatuey]

Nationalism can become extreme well before people start dieing because of it. Nationalism went overboard in Facist Italy and there weren't no Holocaust there.

That ompletely misses the point of what I said. People died as a result of Facism in Italy. Even before WWII got underway, Italy had carried out various massacres in Ethiopia. Thousands of Italian Roma were also killed during Mussolini's reign. That is what I am getting at. Nationalism becomes extreme when a government is willing to go above protecting its interests and simply decides to annihilate even the slightest of threats in order to maintain a false sense of unity.

 

[apdst]

That ompletely misses the point of what I said. People died as a result of Facism in Italy. Even before WWII got underway, Italy had carried out various massacres in Ethiopia. Thousands of Italian Roma were also killed during Mussolini's reign. That is what I am getting at. Nationalism becomes extreme when a government is willing to go above protecting its interests and simply decides to annihilate even the slightest of threats in order to maintain a false sense of unity.

You missed the point that I made. No one died when Mussolini went overboard with nationalism, by placing a bachelor tax on Italian men who weren't out there breeding more Italians.

The whole Roma thing had less to do with Facism, or Nationalism than it did with the general attitude toward the Roma. Even Berlusconi's government has made finger printing the Roma mandatory, for all Roma men, women and children.

Mussolini wasn't involved in the Holocaust and the examples you sighted have been used for decades to prove that Facism = genocide. Which, it doesn't.

 

[Hatuey]

You missed the point that I made. No one died when Mussolini went overboard with nationalism,

Are you reading? Please tell me that you aren't. Because if you were you'd realize that it's not the tax that made his nationalism extreme. It was the fact that he started murdering en masse to achieve it. And no one died when Mussolini went overboard with nationalism. Serioulsy. Pick up a history book?

by placing a bachelor tax on Italian men who weren't out there breeding more Italians.

I've never even heard of this. Source? Or are you just pulling it out of your ass? What relevance does this even have? Don't people who are married with children receive more tax breaks than people who are not?

The whole Roma thing had less to do with Facism, or Nationalism than it did with the general attitude toward the Roma. Even Berlusconi's government has made finger printing the Roma mandatory, for all Roma men, women and children.

Ah yes, obviously shooting the Roma is comparable to fingerprinting the Roma. Only, it's not. There is general attitude of distrust towards the Roma in Europe. However it was only through nationalism that they became actual victims of facism.

Mussolini wasn't involved in the Holocaust

Blatantly ****ing false. Mussolini's creation of concentration camps in Ethiopia along with Nazi Germany's war with the Herrero people during the early 20th century served as the blueprint for concentration camps in most of Europe. There is an immense library of literature that shows the involvement that officials from the OVRA and PAI had in concentration camps. Your revisionism is made even more ridiculous by the fact that there are lists of concentration camps for Jews in Italy. Seriously, do you ever get tired of making **** up?

and the examples you sighted have been used for decades to prove that Facism = genocide. Which, it doesn't.

... Ah okay, it just so happens that every fascist government to date has committed a mass killing of some sort. Oooooooookay.

 

[molten_dragon]

Anything taken to an extreme is generally bad.