View Poll Results: Is extreme nationalism ALWAYS bad in every situation?

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  • yes

    34 64.15%
  • no

    15 28.30%
  • other

    4 7.55%
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Thread: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    We should define what extreme is. It's not bad for a country to create a national identity. It's not bad for a country to advocate national unity as a value. That's good because it allows for political cohesion. However when a country advocates cohesion at the cost of say.... a few thousand lives, that's extreme. Nationalism doesn't truly become extreme until people start dying as a result of it.
    Nationalism can become extreme well before people start dieing because of it. Nationalism went overboard in Facist Italy and there weren't no Holocaust there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #22
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Nationalism can become extreme well before people start dieing because of it. Nationalism went overboard in Facist Italy and there weren't no Holocaust there.
    That ompletely misses the point of what I said. People died as a result of Facism in Italy. Even before WWII got underway, Italy had carried out various massacres in Ethiopia. Thousands of Italian Roma were also killed during Mussolini's reign. That is what I am getting at. Nationalism becomes extreme when a government is willing to go above protecting its interests and simply decides to annihilate even the slightest of threats in order to maintain a false sense of unity.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #23
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That ompletely misses the point of what I said. People died as a result of Facism in Italy. Even before WWII got underway, Italy had carried out various massacres in Ethiopia. Thousands of Italian Roma were also killed during Mussolini's reign. That is what I am getting at. Nationalism becomes extreme when a government is willing to go above protecting its interests and simply decides to annihilate even the slightest of threats in order to maintain a false sense of unity.
    You missed the point that I made. No one died when Mussolini went overboard with nationalism, by placing a bachelor tax on Italian men who weren't out there breeding more Italians.

    The whole Roma thing had less to do with Facism, or Nationalism than it did with the general attitude toward the Roma. Even Berlusconi's government has made finger printing the Roma mandatory, for all Roma men, women and children.

    Mussolini wasn't involved in the Holocaust and the examples you sighted have been used for decades to prove that Facism = genocide. Which, it doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You missed the point that I made. No one died when Mussolini went overboard with nationalism,
    Are you reading? Please tell me that you aren't. Because if you were you'd realize that it's not the tax that made his nationalism extreme. It was the fact that he started murdering en masse to achieve it. And no one died when Mussolini went overboard with nationalism. Serioulsy. Pick up a history book?

    by placing a bachelor tax on Italian men who weren't out there breeding more Italians.
    I've never even heard of this. Source? Or are you just pulling it out of your ass? What relevance does this even have? Don't people who are married with children receive more tax breaks than people who are not?

    The whole Roma thing had less to do with Facism, or Nationalism than it did with the general attitude toward the Roma. Even Berlusconi's government has made finger printing the Roma mandatory, for all Roma men, women and children.
    Ah yes, obviously shooting the Roma is comparable to fingerprinting the Roma. Only, it's not. There is general attitude of distrust towards the Roma in Europe. However it was only through nationalism that they became actual victims of facism.

    Mussolini wasn't involved in the Holocaust
    Blatantly ****ing false. Mussolini's creation of concentration camps in Ethiopia along with Nazi Germany's war with the Herrero people during the early 20th century served as the blueprint for concentration camps in most of Europe. There is an immense library of literature that shows the involvement that officials from the OVRA and PAI had in concentration camps. Your revisionism is made even more ridiculous by the fact that there are lists of concentration camps for Jews in Italy. Seriously, do you ever get tired of making **** up?

    and the examples you sighted have been used for decades to prove that Facism = genocide. Which, it doesn't.
    ... Ah okay, it just so happens that every fascist government to date has committed a mass killing of some sort. Oooooooookay.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Anything taken to an extreme is generally bad.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Anything taken to an extreme is generally bad.
    Except sex.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  7. #27
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Are you reading? Please tell me that you aren't. Because if you were you'd realize that it's not the tax that made his nationalism extreme. It was the fact that he started murdering en masse to achieve it. And no one died when Mussolini went overboard with nationalism. Serioulsy. Pick up a history book?



    I've never even heard of this. Source? Or are you just pulling it out of your ass? What relevance does this even have? Don't people who are married with children receive more tax breaks than people who are not?



    Ah yes, obviously shooting the Roma is comparable to fingerprinting the Roma. Only, it's not. There is general attitude of distrust towards the Roma in Europe. However it was only through nationalism that they became actual victims of facism.



    Blatantly ****ing false. Mussolini's creation of concentration camps in Ethiopia along with Nazi Germany's war with the Herrero people during the early 20th century served as the blueprint for concentration camps in most of Europe. There is an immense library of literature that shows the involvement that officials from the OVRA and PAI had in concentration camps. Your revisionism is made even more ridiculous by the fact that there are lists of concentration camps for Jews in Italy. Seriously, do you ever get tired of making **** up?



    ... Ah okay, it just so happens that every fascist government to date has committed a mass killing of some sort. Oooooooookay.
    Murdering en masse? Got a link for that?

    While it's true that every facist government to date has killed alotta people, Franco and Mussolini can't be placed in the same ballpark as Hitler. It's apples and oranges.

    Hell, allied bombing killed more people than Franco and Mussolini.

    I've never even heard of this. Source? Or are you just pulling it out of your ass? What relevance does this even have? Don't people who are married with children receive more tax breaks than people who are not?
    Doesn't surprise me that you've never heard of the bachelor tax. You're huddling around the fantasy that Mussolini was somehow running his own version of the Holocaust.


    http://books.google.com/books?id=6D4...%20tax&f=false
    Last edited by apdst; 12-29-10 at 07:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Obviously, I would argue that it is a good thing. Nationalism is merely the love of one's own people-- the people to whom one's moral obligations are strongest.
    Is racism and anti-semitism good things? Is ethnic cleansing and genocide good things?

  9. #29
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'm a nationalist, I don't think it's a bad thing, and as long as you don't tie anything else into nationalism, like race or religion, it's not a bad thing at all.
    Nationalism is a substitute for race and religion. See Nazism as a substitute for religion, Zionism as a substitute for race, etc.

    Nationalism, like race and religion, often defines itself exactly by what it is not. Therefore, nationalism is inherently exclusive and notoriously xenophobic. We, as a human civilization, must get past these vague group identities. Let us embrace a more individualistic approach to mankind. One that cherishes the merit and worth of each individual life, regardless of race/sex/religion/etc.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is extreme nationalism really a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solace View Post
    The general population believes that they are better than non-Americans and how America is the greatest and most powerful country in the world. And nothing bad has happened because of this. So do you think that extreme nationalism is a bad thing? I didn't post this in the basement, because I'm hoping we can be civil when discussing this.
    I voted YES because nationalism is an obscure group identity concept that remains as exclusive, as xenophobic, and as self-sacrificing as the most notorious and violent gang, mob, political ideology, movement, race or creed. Nationalism kills individual spirit and holds that the good of the colony demands the sacrifice of the individual (much like a gang, mob, party, movement, race, or creed).

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