View Poll Results: Should they?

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  • yes

    49 30.82%
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    100 62.89%
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Thread: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    OK, well there's one.

    Do you really think she is better than any natural born citizen of the USA would be? I suppose you probably know your country's citizens better than I.

    The USA government education system sure doesn't get the masses off to as good a start as the systems in many other countries so maybe some infusion of brains is needed.

    I don't know about Merkel though. She may very well be better than anything the USA has to offer, but I've never been that impressed with her. But I've not been all that impressed with those the good citizens of the USA have chosen lately either.

    .
    Everyone has their opinions, like I said before I don't see how widening the pool of available candidates could hurt.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #222
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    No.

    Obama has shown that merely being born in the US isn't sufficient. He was raised in Indonesia and simply does not understand the nation stupid enough to elect him president. He was even able to comment on the 57 states, 7 of which clearly do not exist.

  3. #223
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    No.

    Obama has shown that merely being born in the US isn't sufficient. He was raised in Indonesia and simply does not understand the nation stupid enough to elect him president. He was even able to comment on the 57 states, 7 of which clearly do not exist.
    Four years living in Indonesia as a child = being raised in Indonesia?!?!? huh!?!?!? He spend most of his childhood in Hawaii, where he was raised... NOT in Indonesia..

    And frankly, spending some time overseas is NOT a bad thing in a president.
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Everyone has their opinions, like I said before I don't see how widening the pool of available candidates could hurt.
    I've never stated that an expanded pool would be a bad thing; just that it would not make much, if any, difference.

    I would think that those arguing for change would be the one's that would have to justify their position by proving some significant benefit.

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  5. #225
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    No.

    Obama has shown that merely being born in the US isn't sufficient. He was raised in Indonesia and simply does not understand the nation stupid enough to elect him president. He was even able to comment on the 57 states, 7 of which clearly do not exist.
    So what is your solution? Are you suggesting that anyone that ever lived outside the USA, even if a natural born USA citizen, should be disqualified?

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  6. #226
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    I've never stated that an expanded pool would be a bad thing; just that it would not make much, if any, difference.

    I would think that those arguing for change would be the one's that would have to justify their position by proving some significant benefit.

    .
    I wouldn't mind a change as long as the benefits outweigh the risks. I see no reason why there should be "significant" benefits to justify the change, it is more a matter of principle for me. There's no reason why someone born outside the country is less capable of doing the job (as long as they prove to be loyal citizens). They have every right to be qualified for the job as natural-born citizens. If you're an employer and you want to hire, you don't cut out a bunch of potential employees because of where they were born. That's how I see it.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-27-11 at 01:37 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #227
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I wouldn't mind a change as long as the benefits outweigh the risks. I see no reason why there should be "significant" benefits to justify the change,
    And here I always heard it was a good thing to have a high hurdle to change the USA Constitution. So you must really like the idea of mob rule, eh?

    it is more a matter of principle for me. There's no reason why someone born outside the country is less capable of doing the job (as long as they prove to be loyal citizens). They have every right to be qualified for the job as natural-born citizens. If you're an employer and you want to hire, you don't cut out a bunch of potential employees because of where they were born. That's how I see it.
    Yes we do.

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  8. #228
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    And here I always heard it was a good thing to have a high hurdle to change the USA Constitution. So you must really like the idea of mob rule, eh?
    On the contrary. I espouse the idea that Thomas Jefferson suggested in which all Constitutional laws come up for renewal once a generation. If they make sense, they will be kept. If not, they should be disposed of. In a letter to Madison he wrote:

    On similar ground it may be proved that no society can make a perpetual constitution, or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please, during their usufruct. They are masters too of their own persons, and consequently may govern them as they please. But persons and property make the sum of the objects of government. The constitution and the laws of their predecessors extinguished then in their natural course with those who gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself, and no longer. Every constitution then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of 19 years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right.--It may be said that the succeeding generation exercising in fact the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law has been expressly limited to 19 years only. In the first place, this objection admits the right, in proposing an equivalent. But the power of repeal is not an equivalent. It might be indeed if every form of government were so perfectly contrived that the will of the majority could always be obtained fairly and without impediment. But this is true of no form. The people cannot assemble themselves. Their representation is unequal and vicious. Various checks are opposed to every legislative proposition. Factions get possession of the public councils. Bribery corrupts them. Personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents: and other impediments arise so as to prove to every practical man that a law of limited duration is much more manageable than one which needs a repeal.
    And I do think the hurdle as it currently exists is a bit too high. Hell, something as basic as the ERA couldn't even be passed.

    Yes we do.
    Do ordinary employers in the private sector do this? Makes absolutely no economic sense in my opinion.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-27-11 at 04:01 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #229
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    On the contrary. I espouse the idea that Thomas Jefferson suggested in which all Constitutional laws come up for renewal once a generation. If they make sense, they will be kept. If not, they should be disposed of. In a letter to Madison he wrote:



    And I do think the hurdle as it currently exists is a bit too high. Hell, something as basic as the ERA couldn't even be passed.



    Do ordinary employers in the private sector do this? Makes absolutely no economic sense in my opinion.
    Not really surprised.

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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    For the record, the rule that disallows foreign-born citizens from becoming President isn't in the Constitution.
    So what does Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 mean?

    .

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