View Poll Results: Should they?

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Thread: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

  1. #181
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can beg to differ, but I think it's maybe a bit hyperbole to say that in the over 300 million people we have that we don't have enough well qualified players to play the field. We do. Now we may be picking out the jerks and liars and scumbags right now to run. But that doesn't mean we don't have a lot of well qualified candidates; we just don't choose them. So why open ourselves up to foreign influence when what would most likely happen is that we just take foreign jerks and liars and scumbags?
    How does stopping foreign-born citiens keep out foreign influences? It seems a bit redundant that someone who's born in America, but spends most of their life in another country can run for president, but a person who's spent almost their entire lives in America can't.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    All of the founding fathers were "foreign born", since the USA didn't exist before it was founded. However, the founding fathers understood that and added this little jewel to the constitution:

    "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

    Pretty simple to me. No reason to change it.
    If you say so.

    What exactly did you say?

    You just confirmed Tom Paine's ineligibility for the Presidency.

    You offer no argument to exclude from the presidency the man who made the American Revolution.

    It's a sort of "it says so in the Bible" justification. Forgive us if we ridicule such irrational nonsense.

    The democratic principle us clear. The people should be free to choose whomsoever they wish, unless there is a good reason to limit this prerogative of the people.

    No-one puts any cogent reason forward. It is likely that the reasons put forward at the time were to protect a young democracy from a foreign power rather than a foreign individual. The FF would turn in their graves at the thought that their presumptions in the 1770s had been turned into biblical dogma.
    Last edited by Plato; 03-16-11 at 05:31 AM.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    How does stopping foreign-born citiens keep out foreign influences? It seems a bit redundant that someone who's born in America, but spends most of their life in another country can run for president, but a person who's spent almost their entire lives in America can't.
    It doesn't stop it, it lowers probabilities in it. I've addressed this sort of issue already in previous posts.
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  4. #184
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Why ban immigrants? It seems odd that a Libertarian such as yourself use this argument to keep a government restriction in place.
    It's not a government restriction. The government does not say that foreigners cannot run for office. Otherwise, the government could just remove that restriction. But they can't. I say that foreigners, no matter how smart or how much potential they have of doing a good job, cannot run for office of my government. It's my government, and I aim to keep it that way. There are necessarily assimilation times necessary for people to come into the country and learn the ideals and culture and to adopt our methodology. Before they do that, they retain their previous experiences and ideas of government and law. I do not see the need to open our system up to that influence when what we have works just fine. And it works just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    It's not outsourcing if they are naturalized citizens.
    Yeah, but until they assimilate; it's functionally the same.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  5. #185
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Almost everyone I have ever spoken to is opposed to the massive legal and illegal immigration of today and the horrible effect on job markets, but Congress is deaf to our pleas. Their only concern seems to be more people means more taxes for them to use to get votes. Dems especailly love gaming the immigration system because immigrants vote overwhemingly Democratic.

    If politicians could suffer job competition from massive immigration themselves,they might have some understanding and end the massive and harmful levels of today. We haven't needed any immigrants since the 19th century when we needed boots on the ground to steal land from Indians and Mexicans. The greater the population of a nation, the less sustainable it is. The challenges of the future are in natural resources.

  6. #186
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Plato View Post
    If you say so.

    What exactly did you say?

    You just confirmed Tom Paine's ineligibility for the Presidency.

    You offer no argument to exclude from the presidency the man who made the American Revolution.
    I don't have to offer such an argument. The constitution is quite explicit. All presidents shall be born in the USA with the exception of those persons who were citizens at the time the USA was founded... which includes the founding fathers, Washington, Jefferson, et al.

    It's a sort of "it says so in the Bible" justification. Forgive us if we ridicule such irrational nonsense.

    The democratic principle us clear. The people should be free to choose whomsoever they wish, unless there is a good reason to limit this prerogative of the people.
    Well, the constitution is basically "the bible" of government (although since I'm non-religious, I find the comparison rather puerile). Ours is a constitutional republic, which means that we cannot violate the constitution and have a host of supreme court justices around to decide what does and does not violate it. Thus far they have opined that the natural-born president rule is in accordance with the constitution.

    No-one puts any cogent reason forward. It is likely that the reasons put forward at the time were to protect a young democracy from a foreign power rather than a foreign individual. The FF would turn in their graves at the thought that their presumptions in the 1770s had been turned into biblical dogma.
    I doubt the FF would turn in their graves to know that the clause "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." is still being properly interpreted and enforced.

    If the people of the USA want to amend the constitution to revise that clause they are free to do so. Until that time, however, the clause remains in effect.

  7. #187
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not a government restriction. The government does not say that foreigners cannot run for office.
    Text in the Constitution explicitly stating that the President must be a natural born citizen is not a government restriction on who is allowed to run?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Otherwise, the government could just remove that restriction. But they can't. I say that foreigners, no matter how smart or how much potential they have of doing a good job, cannot run for office of my government. It's my government, and I aim to keep it that way. There are necessarily assimilation times necessary for people to come into the country and learn the ideals and culture and to adopt our methodology. Before they do that, they retain their previous experiences and ideas of government and law. I do not see the need to open our system up to that influence when what we have works just fine. And it works just fine.



    Yeah, but until they assimilate; it's functionally the same.
    I do not have a problem with voting against a candidate that has not completely assimilated. What I have a problem with is the government keeping a blanket restriction based on an arbitrary statement that immigrants cannot integrate enough to run for President. If some can, why not let them run?
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  8. #188
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Text in the Constitution explicitly stating that the President must be a natural born citizen is not a government restriction on who is allowed to run?
    No, it's a restriction by We the People on who can run. The government cannot just get rid of the rule, you'd have to amend the Constitution to do so. Thus it is not a government restriction, it is a restriction placed on the government by the founders.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I do not have a problem with voting against a candidate that has not completely assimilated. What I have a problem with is the government keeping a blanket restriction based on an arbitrary statement that immigrants cannot integrate enough to run for President. If some can, why not let them run?
    I have no problem with denying foriegners the ability to run for our highest office. Until we get to the point where we ourselves cannot field a proper team of qualified politicians, there is no need to change it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  9. #189
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    i think the president should be someone who has lived here his whole life and knows what americans want and what america needs to do. i dont think some foreigner should be able to come over and reach top level in our government. nothing against foreigners, just let americans run america.
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  10. #190
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    Re: Should individuals born in foreign countries be able to run for president?

    I think the majority of people in this thread would agree that, in general, they have nothing against people who are not natural-born citizens of the US.

    It is simply that, until some way of completely examining a person’s mind (and for that matter, laws that allow such) exists, one of the best stays against a person who has designs against America becoming president is to bar any but natural born (which I think means born of at least one citizen, in general?) citizens.

    In no way does it prevent a someone who is a highly skilled actor, a natural-born citizen, and who has plans negative towards the USA from becoming president, but restricting presidential potentials in such a way does cut down on the possibility.

    Which is probably why the restriction was put in place on only the presidency (I think?), and not all federal elected positions.

    Less individual power, and thus less potential for damage, among senators and congressmen.
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