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Uniforms in public schools...

Which of these statements do you agree with most?


  • Total voters
    55
You were not the one who said it.

Then why did you talk to me about it?

No one ever accused you of humility.

Since when does understanding something to be true qualify one as lacking humility? If Kobe Bryant said that he was a great basketball playing, he lacks humility? Nope, it is the intent of talking about it that qualifies it as humility or not. I am not saying that I am a better person for it, just that that is how it is...

That sort of exclusivity-based notion of knowledge is petty and idiotic.

You can have and express any opinion that you want to express. I never said that you couldn't or shouldn't. I have learned things from non-parents. In the overall scheme of things though, until a person has a child and cares and raises that individual for 24/7, with the poopy diapers and the throwing up and the lack of sleep and the skinned knees and they tea parties and the silliness and bedtime stories and ALL OF IT, then your opinion is nice and all, but one that lacks context, perspective, awareness and understanding.

It is like pro-choice women insisting that men cannot argue against abortion because they have never experienced pregnancy/child birth. When you start to apply it everywhere you begin to see the terribly fallacious nature of such arguments. Here are few areas where such logic is exposed as the empty piece of **** it is:

No, that is different. There are facts in abortion that are exclusive and scientific. It is also about, as some people argue it, the potential murder of a developing human. It is not about expressing an opinion about explaining your reasoning to a child.

"You have never lived under shariah law so you have no business criticizing it."

"People who did not live in the death camps during the Holocaust cannot criticize it."

"Since you never once ****ed a seven year-old there is no justification for you telling me it is sick."

How much weight would you give those sorts of arguments?

I would say that you are correct about those types of arguments which are vastly different from the ones that I described. You are talking about an end result, I am talking about depth of understanding. A non-parent has no idea what being a parent is really like. Sure, you see the movies and shows and know some people with kids, but like I described above, that is a very limited view. A non-parent can say that punching your kid in the face is wrong and they would be correct. That is what you are describing above. Sharia Law is oppressive. Molesting is harmful, sick and wrong. Seeing and hearing about death camps and knowing that they are wrong and deathly is open for discussion and everybody has a say. I wouldn't dare tell a woman what it is like to have PMS or that post-partum depression is silly. I am a man and empathize and shut my mouth since it is an experience that I know next to nothing about. Sure, I can read books and know a liot about it, but until I experience it, to talk about it like I have understanding is just falt out stupid. Same thing about non-parents talking to parents about parenting... My daughter almost died a ways back, not parents have ever offered me advice about what it was like or how I reacted or didn't react appropriately... they have the understanding of having moved up the tier system of understanding, that's why. Single. Married. Children. Divorce. Death. Some of the things that those that have not experienced really have no business insisting that they are correct about.

Why not exactly? Is it not better for a child to actually know something other than "my parents tell me this is wrong so I should just not question them"?

Did anybody ever propose not ever including the child on the reasons behind the decision? To say that it should and can be done every time, like I said, is ridiculous and naive.

Given some of what I know about laws in Japan I have to disagree with you.

You disagree with, "School uniforms are not the exclusive perogative of the "repressive state"? That is a universal statement, something that I am starting to learn you have difficulty with.
 
Then why did you talk to me about it?

The question is why did you talk to me about it.

Since when does understanding something to be true qualify one as lacking humility? If Kobe Bryant said that he was a great basketball playing, he lacks humility? Nope, it is the intent of talking about it that qualifies it as humility or not. I am not saying that I am a better person for it, just that that is how it is...

If Kobe Bryant said he was the highest ranked in x of basketball that would not not be a matter of humility. To simply tout one's self as great is different.

You can have and express any opinion that you want to express. I never said that you couldn't or shouldn't. I have learned things from non-parents. In the overall scheme of things though, until a person has a child and cares and raises that individual for 24/7, with the poopy diapers and the throwing up and the lack of sleep and the skinned knees and they tea parties and the silliness and bedtime stories and ALL OF IT, then your opinion is nice and all, but one that lacks context, perspective, awareness and understanding.

All you lack is the personal experience. Context, perspective, awareness, and understanding can all be attained without experience. Maybe you did not achieve these things until becoming a parent but that does not preclude anyone else from doing so.

I would say that you are correct about those types of arguments which are vastly different from the ones that I described. You are talking about an end result, I am talking about depth of understanding. A non-parent has no idea what being a parent is really like. Sure, you see the movies and shows and know some people with kids, but like I described above, that is a very limited view. A non-parent can say that punching your kid in the face is wrong and they would be correct. That is what you are describing above. Sharia Law is oppressive. Molesting is harmful, sick and wrong. Seeing and hearing about death camps and knowing that they are wrong and deathly is open for discussion and everybody has a say. I wouldn't dare tell a woman what it is like to have PMS or that post-partum depression is silly. I am a man and empathize and shut my mouth since it is an experience that I know next to nothing about. Sure, I can read books and know a liot about it, but until I experience it, to talk about it like I have understanding is just falt out stupid. Same thing about non-parents talking to parents about parenting... My daughter almost died a ways back, not parents have ever offered me advice about what it was like or how I reacted or didn't react appropriately... they have the understanding of having moved up the tier system of understanding, that's why. Single. Married. Children. Divorce. Death. Some of the things that those that have not experienced really have no business insisting that they are correct about.

Thing about every last thing you mention is you seem to leave out one critical part of human reasoning and that is imagination. If you have a good imagination you can understand just about any circumstance.

Did anybody ever propose not ever including the child on the reasons behind the decision? To say that it should and can be done every time, like I said, is ridiculous and naive.

Where exactly are you saying this would not be possible?

You disagree with, "School uniforms are not the exclusive perogative of the "repressive state"? That is a universal statement, something that I am starting to learn you have difficulty with.

Actually, I was disagreeing with the idea of Japan being an example proving the statement.
 
Doesn't sound like what we think of as uniforms here. The uniforms here (one set each for summer dress, summer PE, winter dress and winter PE) is prescribed exactly for each school. Jackets and sweater vests as well, depending on the weather. Designs and colors are uniform. At my girls' elementary school, each student has his/her class and seat numbers stiched into the top of the uniform. Many middle schools and high schools also have students embroider their names on the uniforms, but some are going away from that and having them embroider their school id number. No fighting, no bickering about colors or designs. Saves a lot of hastles...

Geesh - that sounds so expensive.
 
The question is why did you talk to me about it.

Moving on....

If Kobe Bryant said he was the highest ranked in x of basketball that would not not be a matter of humility. To simply tout one's self as great is different.

Tout? Try a simple statement. I'm just a pretty average guy that is a great dad...

All you lack is the personal experience. Context, perspective, awareness, and understanding can all be attained without experience. Maybe you did not achieve these things until becoming a parent but that does not preclude anyone else from doing so.

If I am a parent, then how am I lacking the personal experience of being a parent? I don't follow that AT ALL.

I should have phrased the, "Context, perspective, awareness, and understanding" part better and added "proper" in front of it. I had each of those things prior to becoming a parent, and then realized how naive I was. I think that any honest parent, and I have talked about this with many, would agree.

Thing about every last thing you mention is you seem to leave out one critical part of human reasoning and that is imagination. If you have a good imagination you can understand just about any circumstance.

Sure, I can imagine what it is like to give birth too, and having been there twice and seen every bloody, gooey and beautiful aspect of it, along with the vivid memory of the crushing of my hand by my wife, I probably could and can imagine many things that you can't. Doesn't mean that I would be justified or correct in telling her that I could tell her how to push and breath just as easily as she could tell me.

I have saved people's lives too, you gonna now tell me what to do in an emrgency situation if you have never been in one. In training, we listen to the ones that have been there before, not the desk jockey who has read the manual.

Where exacty are you saying this would not be possible?

Naive... like I said. To even ask that question indicates that you know next to jack about it.

Actually, I was disagreeing with the idea of Japan being an example proving the statement.

Fine, but it works in many other places quite nicely... so that point is moot.
 
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Should school uniforms be banned?

There has been much debate on whether or not school uniforms should be permanently banned from all public schools. In other words, school uniforms will never exist in public schools in America. This would prevent it from happening in the future, which is a good thing. I believe they should be made illegal, because there is no reason to have them and it's been proven that students perform better without them. What are your thoughts on school uniforms being outlawed?
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

Here's what a grown man wrote looking back at high school upon graduating a few years ago, in which he experienced both public and private schools, one without uniforms (obviously public) and one with (obviously private):
I went to a private school up until 10th grade (I couldn't STAND private school) and our uniforms were so strict (white button up shirt, black pants, black/white socks, black shoes, blazer with school logo on it) that if you did not wear your blazer during winter months you'd get written up. NOBODY was to take it off. And girls could not wear pants during the winter which was absolutely ridiculous considering it gets COLD here. They even measured skirts and checked our socks. I did not leave for the uniform, I left because the students were just pure rude and stuck up. I hated it. I loved public school, although it is very laid back and does have its problems, Private School can be just as bad at times only exception is that they don't make it public bc they don't want their reputation ruined. Students get expelled and fights etc... happen as well.
Link: Should school uniforms be banned? -- LiveWire Teen Forums
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

It should be left to the school district, not the federal government
 
Moderator's Warning:
Merged thread. Please look before you post new threads.
 
They should never be in public schools. If you want your kid to have a uniform, send him/her to a private/religious school, end of discussion.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

There has been much debate on whether or not school uniforms should be permanently banned from all public schools. In other words, school uniforms will never exist in public schools in America.

School uniforms do exist in public schools.Many of the schools My nephews and nieces and their friends go to public schools in poor neighborhoods that require uniforms.

This would prevent it from happening in the future, which is a good thing. I believe they should be made illegal, because there is no reason to have them and it's been proven that students perform better without them. What are your thoughts on school uniforms being outlawed?
You keep saying this but you have yet to post any credible evidence to support this claim. Perhaps when you grow up and get a big boy job you might realize how stupid your rant against school uniforms are. If your schools are starting to implement uniforms then blame the students who were there before you. Public schools do not implement a uniform policy to look prestigious.They do it because of dumb ass wannabe gang banging scum, students trying to wear any and everything they can try to get away and all sorts of other problems.
 
They should never be in public schools. If you want your kid to have a uniform, send him/her to a private/religious school, end of discussion.

View is complete opposite.

All schools should have it. Each uniform unique to the school. When they hit 16 and are now in college, they can wear what they wish because they have earned that privilege as adults.
Baggy jeans and mini skirts on kids at school. No thanks
 
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Federally mandated uniforms will go over well in Nazi Germany or Repressive N Korea.
Not here, obviously, at least to many of us.
A problem may exist, there are better ways to handle this, with open-ness, honesty, respect, not repression and hatred as in N Korea, supposedly.
I do not trust our media.
An idea - if a child commits an offense, then the child and parent should face discipline together.

Nazi Germany doesn't exist anymore. Maybe you need a history class. Schools are run by the States, and you need to cut the shrill. If you don't know anything about uniforms, then educate yourself first.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

There has been much debate on whether or not school uniforms should be permanently banned from all public schools. In other words, school uniforms will never exist in public schools in America. This would prevent it from happening in the future, which is a good thing. I believe they should be made illegal, because there is no reason to have them and it's been proven that students perform better without them. What are your thoughts on school uniforms being outlawed?

My first thought is that you haven't participated any other time I've responded to you. I doubt you'll contribute now.

My second thought is prove it.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

Here's what a grown man wrote looking back at high school upon graduating a few years ago, in which he experienced both public and private schools, one without uniforms (obviously public) and one with (obviously private):

Link: Should school uniforms be banned? -- LiveWire Teen Forums

Do you know what anecdotal evidence is? This is worth less than even that. It's not evidence, just some guy bitching.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

There has been much debate on whether or not school uniforms should be permanently banned from all public schools. In other words, school uniforms will never exist in public schools in America. This would prevent it from happening in the future, which is a good thing. I believe they should be made illegal, because there is no reason to have them and it's been proven that students perform better without them. What are your thoughts on school uniforms being outlawed?

It has been proven that students perform better without them? Was that an actual study, or just something in your own mind?
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

It has been proven that students perform better without them? Was that an actual study, or just something in your own mind?

I can tell you what my money's on!
 
I think that dress codes should be locally determined and subject to parental discretion. Personally, I'd welcome them at my children's schools.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

There has been much debate on whether or not school uniforms should be permanently banned from all public schools. In other words, school uniforms will never exist in public schools in America. This would prevent it from happening in the future, which is a good thing. I believe they should be made illegal, because there is no reason to have them and it's been proven that students perform better without them. What are your thoughts on school uniforms being outlawed?

Outlawed? That is ridiculous. And you have shown zero evidence that uniforms hinder a students performance, where as a few of us have first hand experience regarding the benfits of them. Evidence? Proof? Teenager whining?
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

Outlawed? That is ridiculous. And you have shown zero evidence that uniforms hinder a students performance, where as a few of us have first hand experience regarding the benfits of them. Evidence? Proof? Teenager whining?

I'm with Solace on this one. Uniforms should be outlawed for public schools. What a terrible tragedy to remove individuality from children while they are growing up. It screams: "You mustn't be different. You need to be the same as everyone else."

Sounds like a recipe for squelching over-achievement in areas not prone to the uniform masses.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

I'm with Solace on this one. Uniforms should be outlawed for public schools. What a terrible tragedy to remove individuality from children while they are growing up. It screams: "You mustn't be different. You need to be the same as everyone else."

Sounds like a recipe for squelching over-achievement in areas not prone to the uniform masses.

The tragedy is those that viewing dressing as an individual as an achievement.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

The tragedy is those that viewing dressing as an individual as an achievement.

Yes, we think differently. Tragedy? Not hardly.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

I'm with Solace on this one. Uniforms should be outlawed for public schools. What a terrible tragedy to remove individuality from children while they are growing up. It screams: "You mustn't be different. You need to be the same as everyone else."

Sounds like a recipe for squelching over-achievement in areas not prone to the uniform masses.

Individuality is removed from children when they can't wear what they want to school? Seriously? You think that?

Terrible tragedy, huh? See, hearing this kinda makes me dismiss your whole opinion since, after working at schools that have dress codes and seeing nothing wrong with them in the slightest and at one, hearing kids say that they wished that they had better uniforms than the ones that they had, well... terrible tragedy just comes across as a pathetic appeal to emotion.
 
Re: Should school uniforms be banned?

Try a complete sentence on me.

Hahaa... like this one a couple of posts up:

"Not hardly."

Really now, playing that little game is so juvenile. Is plug your ears up next on the game list?
 
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