View Poll Results: Which of these statements do you agree with most?

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  • Uniforms should be federally mandated in all public schools.

    27 32.93%
  • No public school students should have to wear uniforms.

    23 28.05%
  • Uniforms should only be used in public schools with lots of discipline problems.

    6 7.32%
  • Somethin' else.

    26 31.71%
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Thread: Uniforms in public schools...

  1. #121
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by MissLToe View Post
    We're having this discussion in the education section, so I thought I'd bring it up here for a poll.

    Your opinions, please and thank you.
    When I was a teenager I would have strongly opposed the idea of a school uniform policy in public schools. Now that I have grown up and did some thinking I think they are a great idea. I do not think the federal government should mandate them but states and school districts should be allowed to mandate them.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #122
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Not at all. I would never presume that I automatically know better than someone, regardless of age.
    And you think that I am doing that? You point out a lot of pointless things...

    There are many who think themselves to be good parents and if I were being more lenient about what it takes to be a "good" parent I might agree, but I am not being lenient about it right now.
    It doesn't matter if you think that they are good or not. That is irrelvant to them actually being good. There are many good parents, and I am one of them. I would say great, actually. If you are a parent, which I don't think you are, and you consider yourself not good, then that sucks for your children. If you aren't a parent, then your opinions are essentially worthless. Talking to a non-parent about being a parent is as useful as talking to a parent that never had a child almost die when you have, or talking to a soldier about combat when you have never been there or talking to a person that is not married about being married.

    It is not about whether you consider your answer "good" or "real" but whether it is a valid one. Providing a logical explanation for your reasons is important in everything.
    These are two separate things. The reason can be valid and the answer can be withheld. Anybody that thinks that they can and should explain every reason regarding every decision that they make regarding their children is a wack job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  3. #123
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Originally Posted by MissLToe
    Wha? Rich kids don't buy expensive shoes, it's the poor kids that do? LOL!
    Not exclusively... but in general, yes. I am talking about most expensive stuff, not just nice stuff. The rich kids will have a larger proportion of nicer stuff and more of it too, that is a separate issue from what they wear at school, though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Give me a break! You really gonna sit here and try to convince me the preps/rich kids do not buy and have high dollar kicks? Dude please

    But you are right that some poor kids get them maybe a few times a year as gifts or something. Or maybe from goodwill, thrift shops, clothing closets, etc.
    Kali, I am one of the few teachers that has literally almost taught everything at every grade level. I have taught at two private schools and 3 public ones in two different countries as well as the resident substitute at a juvenile hall detention center, one private was so exclusive and rich that I was teaching Joe Montana's son. I have taught at inner city schools in the Bay Area and at an expulsion school with about 100% gang banger thugs. I can tell you with certainty that the poor kids are walking around, with a far greater percentage, with the more expensive clothes, jackets and especially shoes. They spend all of their money for bling. Sure, rich kids have nice stuff, but most rich kids at public schools dress like crap on purpose, there are very few that walk around like on High School Musical. That is a false stereotype.

    Forget fear and replace it with understand then.. Still lazy parenting if you use spanking a child as way to make them understand something.

    Spanking instills fear. If you are cool with kids not doing stuff cause they know their parents are gonna hit em rather than teaching em life lessons without having to raise your hand to em? Knock yourself out. Of course it was not YOU doing the DIRTY Deed! You made your wife do it.

    BTW, it does sound like you all did a good job and have a wonderful girl though
    I think that it isn't lazy... it is just not sure how to apply a different method, that's all.
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 12-26-10 at 07:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  4. #124
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Federally mandated uniforms will go over well in Nazi Germany or Repressive N Korea.
    Not here, obviously, at least to many of us.
    A problem may exist, there are better ways to handle this, with open-ness, honesty, respect, not repression and hatred as in N Korea, supposedly.
    I do not trust our media.
    An idea - if a child commits an offense, then the child and parent should face discipline together.
    School uniforms are not the exclusive perogative of the "repressive state". Taiwan, Japan and I presume South Korea also have school uniforms in all schools...
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  5. #125
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    And you think that I am doing that?
    You were not the one who said it.

    It doesn't matter if you think that they are good or not. That is irrelvant to them actually being good. There are many good parents, and I am one of them. I would say great, actually.
    No one ever accused you of humility.

    If you are a parent, which I don't think you are, and you consider yourself not good, then that sucks for your children. If you aren't a parent, then your opinions are essentially worthless. Talking to a non-parent about being a parent is as useful as talking to a parent that never had a child almost die when you have, or talking to a soldier about combat when you have never been there or talking to a person that is not married about being married.
    That sort of exclusivity-based notion of knowledge is petty and idiotic. It is like pro-choice women insisting that men cannot argue against abortion because they have never experienced pregnancy/child birth. When you start to apply it everywhere you begin to see the terribly fallacious nature of such arguments. Here are few areas where such logic is exposed as the empty piece of **** it is:

    "You have never lived under shariah law so you have no business criticizing it."

    "People who did not live in the death camps during the Holocaust cannot criticize it."

    "Since you never once ****ed a seven year-old there is no justification for you telling me it is sick."

    How much weight would you give those sorts of arguments?

    These are two separate things. The reason can be valid and the answer can be withheld. Anybody that thinks that they can and should explain every reason regarding every decision that they make regarding their children is a wack job.
    Why not exactly? Is it not better for a child to actually know something other than "my parents tell me this is wrong so I should just not question them"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    School uniforms are not the exclusive perogative of the "repressive state". Taiwan, Japan and I presume South Korea also have school uniforms in all schools...
    Given some of what I know about laws in Japan I have to disagree with you.
    Last edited by Demon of Light; 12-26-10 at 08:31 PM.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    You were not the one who said it.
    Then why did you talk to me about it?

    No one ever accused you of humility.
    Since when does understanding something to be true qualify one as lacking humility? If Kobe Bryant said that he was a great basketball playing, he lacks humility? Nope, it is the intent of talking about it that qualifies it as humility or not. I am not saying that I am a better person for it, just that that is how it is...

    That sort of exclusivity-based notion of knowledge is petty and idiotic.
    You can have and express any opinion that you want to express. I never said that you couldn't or shouldn't. I have learned things from non-parents. In the overall scheme of things though, until a person has a child and cares and raises that individual for 24/7, with the poopy diapers and the throwing up and the lack of sleep and the skinned knees and they tea parties and the silliness and bedtime stories and ALL OF IT, then your opinion is nice and all, but one that lacks context, perspective, awareness and understanding.

    It is like pro-choice women insisting that men cannot argue against abortion because they have never experienced pregnancy/child birth. When you start to apply it everywhere you begin to see the terribly fallacious nature of such arguments. Here are few areas where such logic is exposed as the empty piece of **** it is:
    No, that is different. There are facts in abortion that are exclusive and scientific. It is also about, as some people argue it, the potential murder of a developing human. It is not about expressing an opinion about explaining your reasoning to a child.

    "You have never lived under shariah law so you have no business criticizing it."

    "People who did not live in the death camps during the Holocaust cannot criticize it."

    "Since you never once ****ed a seven year-old there is no justification for you telling me it is sick."

    How much weight would you give those sorts of arguments?
    I would say that you are correct about those types of arguments which are vastly different from the ones that I described. You are talking about an end result, I am talking about depth of understanding. A non-parent has no idea what being a parent is really like. Sure, you see the movies and shows and know some people with kids, but like I described above, that is a very limited view. A non-parent can say that punching your kid in the face is wrong and they would be correct. That is what you are describing above. Sharia Law is oppressive. Molesting is harmful, sick and wrong. Seeing and hearing about death camps and knowing that they are wrong and deathly is open for discussion and everybody has a say. I wouldn't dare tell a woman what it is like to have PMS or that post-partum depression is silly. I am a man and empathize and shut my mouth since it is an experience that I know next to nothing about. Sure, I can read books and know a liot about it, but until I experience it, to talk about it like I have understanding is just falt out stupid. Same thing about non-parents talking to parents about parenting... My daughter almost died a ways back, not parents have ever offered me advice about what it was like or how I reacted or didn't react appropriately... they have the understanding of having moved up the tier system of understanding, that's why. Single. Married. Children. Divorce. Death. Some of the things that those that have not experienced really have no business insisting that they are correct about.

    Why not exactly? Is it not better for a child to actually know something other than "my parents tell me this is wrong so I should just not question them"?
    Did anybody ever propose not ever including the child on the reasons behind the decision? To say that it should and can be done every time, like I said, is ridiculous and naive.

    Given some of what I know about laws in Japan I have to disagree with you.
    You disagree with, "School uniforms are not the exclusive perogative of the "repressive state"? That is a universal statement, something that I am starting to learn you have difficulty with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  7. #127
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Then why did you talk to me about it?
    The question is why did you talk to me about it.

    Since when does understanding something to be true qualify one as lacking humility? If Kobe Bryant said that he was a great basketball playing, he lacks humility? Nope, it is the intent of talking about it that qualifies it as humility or not. I am not saying that I am a better person for it, just that that is how it is...
    If Kobe Bryant said he was the highest ranked in x of basketball that would not not be a matter of humility. To simply tout one's self as great is different.

    You can have and express any opinion that you want to express. I never said that you couldn't or shouldn't. I have learned things from non-parents. In the overall scheme of things though, until a person has a child and cares and raises that individual for 24/7, with the poopy diapers and the throwing up and the lack of sleep and the skinned knees and they tea parties and the silliness and bedtime stories and ALL OF IT, then your opinion is nice and all, but one that lacks context, perspective, awareness and understanding.
    All you lack is the personal experience. Context, perspective, awareness, and understanding can all be attained without experience. Maybe you did not achieve these things until becoming a parent but that does not preclude anyone else from doing so.

    I would say that you are correct about those types of arguments which are vastly different from the ones that I described. You are talking about an end result, I am talking about depth of understanding. A non-parent has no idea what being a parent is really like. Sure, you see the movies and shows and know some people with kids, but like I described above, that is a very limited view. A non-parent can say that punching your kid in the face is wrong and they would be correct. That is what you are describing above. Sharia Law is oppressive. Molesting is harmful, sick and wrong. Seeing and hearing about death camps and knowing that they are wrong and deathly is open for discussion and everybody has a say. I wouldn't dare tell a woman what it is like to have PMS or that post-partum depression is silly. I am a man and empathize and shut my mouth since it is an experience that I know next to nothing about. Sure, I can read books and know a liot about it, but until I experience it, to talk about it like I have understanding is just falt out stupid. Same thing about non-parents talking to parents about parenting... My daughter almost died a ways back, not parents have ever offered me advice about what it was like or how I reacted or didn't react appropriately... they have the understanding of having moved up the tier system of understanding, that's why. Single. Married. Children. Divorce. Death. Some of the things that those that have not experienced really have no business insisting that they are correct about.
    Thing about every last thing you mention is you seem to leave out one critical part of human reasoning and that is imagination. If you have a good imagination you can understand just about any circumstance.

    Did anybody ever propose not ever including the child on the reasons behind the decision? To say that it should and can be done every time, like I said, is ridiculous and naive.
    Where exactly are you saying this would not be possible?

    You disagree with, "School uniforms are not the exclusive perogative of the "repressive state"? That is a universal statement, something that I am starting to learn you have difficulty with.
    Actually, I was disagreeing with the idea of Japan being an example proving the statement.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Doesn't sound like what we think of as uniforms here. The uniforms here (one set each for summer dress, summer PE, winter dress and winter PE) is prescribed exactly for each school. Jackets and sweater vests as well, depending on the weather. Designs and colors are uniform. At my girls' elementary school, each student has his/her class and seat numbers stiched into the top of the uniform. Many middle schools and high schools also have students embroider their names on the uniforms, but some are going away from that and having them embroider their school id number. No fighting, no bickering about colors or designs. Saves a lot of hastles...
    Geesh - that sounds so expensive.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Uniforms in public schools...

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    The question is why did you talk to me about it.
    Moving on....

    If Kobe Bryant said he was the highest ranked in x of basketball that would not not be a matter of humility. To simply tout one's self as great is different.
    Tout? Try a simple statement. I'm just a pretty average guy that is a great dad...

    All you lack is the personal experience. Context, perspective, awareness, and understanding can all be attained without experience. Maybe you did not achieve these things until becoming a parent but that does not preclude anyone else from doing so.
    If I am a parent, then how am I lacking the personal experience of being a parent? I don't follow that AT ALL.

    I should have phrased the, "Context, perspective, awareness, and understanding" part better and added "proper" in front of it. I had each of those things prior to becoming a parent, and then realized how naive I was. I think that any honest parent, and I have talked about this with many, would agree.

    Thing about every last thing you mention is you seem to leave out one critical part of human reasoning and that is imagination. If you have a good imagination you can understand just about any circumstance.
    Sure, I can imagine what it is like to give birth too, and having been there twice and seen every bloody, gooey and beautiful aspect of it, along with the vivid memory of the crushing of my hand by my wife, I probably could and can imagine many things that you can't. Doesn't mean that I would be justified or correct in telling her that I could tell her how to push and breath just as easily as she could tell me.

    I have saved people's lives too, you gonna now tell me what to do in an emrgency situation if you have never been in one. In training, we listen to the ones that have been there before, not the desk jockey who has read the manual.

    Where exacty are you saying this would not be possible?
    Naive... like I said. To even ask that question indicates that you know next to jack about it.

    Actually, I was disagreeing with the idea of Japan being an example proving the statement.
    Fine, but it works in many other places quite nicely... so that point is moot.
    Last edited by Bodhisattva; 12-27-10 at 10:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  10. #130
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    Should school uniforms be banned?

    There has been much debate on whether or not school uniforms should be permanently banned from all public schools. In other words, school uniforms will never exist in public schools in America. This would prevent it from happening in the future, which is a good thing. I believe they should be made illegal, because there is no reason to have them and it's been proven that students perform better without them. What are your thoughts on school uniforms being outlawed?

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