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Redistribution of Wealth

Redistribution of Wealth


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Actually, while "social programs" are a HUGE part of the massively bloated Federal Budget, one thing that is often neglected in these discussions is "corporate welfare"... and things like TARP.

Corporations often get tax breaks as incentives to build a plant in a certain area. Now, I'm not entirely opposed to that because it creates jobs... but the State or City that does this is likely to try to take that money they didn't get from the corporation from other sources... ie the Middle Class in most cases.

We're still subsidizing the steel industry and farmers IIRC. In the latter case, I doubt family farms are benefitting as much as the super-huge corporate farm conglomerates.

We subsidize other huge corps. Hedge funds and banks take unreasonable risks and then get bailed out with taxpayer money.

Sure, lots of people own stock now... but it is the big money houses and Ultra-Rich that benefit most from these things.

This could be construed as wealth being redistributed upwards.

I tend to agree with Digsbe... it is the middle class and moderately-wealthy that is getting the squeeze, while money moves upwards to the Ultra-Rich and downwards to the Welfare/food stamp recipients.
 
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Everyone willing to work should be able to prosper and acquire wealth.

They can. Why do you think they can't?

These "hard working" people you refer to often don't have to work at all. Their riches are making them richer. And it has to come from somewhere.

Yes, as I said they either are hard workers or they were fortunate enough to be born into a rich family. That's life.

That's the issue at hand. The ill-informed have a tendancy to support those who support the current system as it is. And it is simply unsustainable.

If you work hard, handle your money well, discipline yourself - you'll most likely do well in life. I fail to see how you think hard workers can't make it in this country.

Some questions for you and whoever wants to answer...

~ Do you believe there should be a cap to how much money one person should make?

~ Should 100% of the wealth of a person who has died be given to the government regardless of how much it is? I mean, their family didn't earn that, the person who died did, right?

~ Is it possible for a person living in poverty as a child to be rich later in life in this country? If so, how? If not, why not?
 
Is that what was happening in the Fifties and Sixties when the middle class grew and income was expanded to the workers?

People want corporations to do well and for employers do to well also PROVIDING that they too share in the prosperity. And in a nutshell that is the problem of the last ten years. the prosperity has been only one way.

Even moreso in the past three years.
 
And the way it is set up, only the rich can afford this higher education you speak of. I agree that education = mo' money. Don't suppose you support making equal education affordable for the poor do you Turtle? Didn't think so. My guess is that you disapprove of the people getting taxpayer grants and scholorships. But I could be wrong.

I get a kick out of the wingnuts when they start their footstompng claims, "The socialist lazy asses want wealth distribution! Oh noes!" When the undeniable facts are that the top 1% (whom the GOP and rightwingers are famous for defending and cowtowing to) has a net worth and financial wealth that has only risen year after year and decade after decade as the moderate and low income population falls. THERE is your wealth distribution. From the hard working stiffs to the irvory hall suits. Yet, somehow, to some of our esteemed wingnuts, this form of wealth distribution is fine and dandy. As long as it comes out of the moderate and poor pockets and ends up in the rich. But any attempt to level the playing field, is a socialist commie plot.

And somehow, the rightwing apologists can't seem to get that into their FAUXNews mush head brains of theirs.

Whatever....

If you really wanna see how our current system favors the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, take a looksy at some numbers of who really rules America. Leave your propaganda bull**** at the door.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power


Actually, you are wrong again. I give my college and the university where I did my graduate and law degrees substantial funds. Indeed my family endows four full scholarships for needy students to attend Yale. So I guess your leftwing drivel is just that.

And your can piss and moan about the rich all you want. Yale and other equivalent universities have large endowments and when I attended that college, admissions were blind meaning if someone got in, Yale made sure they could attend. Your idiotic rants are beyond worthless given that rich people are the reason why places like that have so many kids who couldn't afford to attend without help.

And its not "rich people" who cause smart black kids who make top grades to be called "uncle toms" by their peers. Its not rich people who cause single parent families or so many women to have children before they graduate high school which pretty much dooms those children to poverty
 
The socialists and liberals should at first themselves learn to make money, therefore think about redistribution of wealth.
 
Upwards. The United States has more wealth inequality now, than at any point in the past 80 years.

That's probably because of several factors:
1) An aging population with more people moving into Social Security than ever before
2) Rapid growth of the "disability" rolls
3) Almost half the population households currently receive a federal government check or other subsidy in one form or another.

When a high percentage of the population is government-dependent for a living, that puts them into the poverty level category.
 
you seem ignorant-again-of global economic reality and the fact is-those who aren't educated in the modern information systems etc aren't going to make good wages like they could 40 years ago by working on a factory line in Detroit.

As much as I hate to do this I have to actually agree with turtledude on something. The part bolded there is true. One way to fix it though, and increase America's ability to start gaining money is to bring those factories back to the US instead of letting them go over seas. Look at China, they've been gaining steadily for quite some time now and it has mainly to do with the fact that thier economy is based in large part on factories.

The US needs to start producing material things instead of just consuming.
 
And the way it is set up, only the rich can afford this higher education you speak of. I agree that education = mo' money. Don't suppose you support making equal education affordable for the poor do you Turtle? Didn't think so. My guess is that you disapprove of the people getting taxpayer grants and scholorships. But I could be wrong.

I get a kick out of the wingnuts when they start their footstompng claims, "The socialist lazy asses want wealth distribution! Oh noes!" When the undeniable facts are that the top 1% (whom the GOP and rightwingers are famous for defending and cowtowing to) has a net worth and financial wealth that has only risen year after year and decade after decade as the moderate and low income population falls. THERE is your wealth distribution. From the hard working stiffs to the irvory hall suits. Yet, somehow, to some of our esteemed wingnuts, this form of wealth distribution is fine and dandy. As long as it comes out of the moderate and poor pockets and ends up in the rich. But any attempt to level the playing field, is a socialist commie plot.

And somehow, the rightwing apologists can't seem to get that into their FAUXNews mush head brains of theirs.

Whatever....

If you really wanna see how our current system favors the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, take a looksy at some numbers of who really rules America. Leave your propaganda bull**** at the door.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

I still waiting for you to even once ever espouse an independent opinion. But I guess I'll never see it. Maybe you're just not independent.
 
Wealth should be measured by what we don't need instead of what we don't have....as individuals, and as a country....
The only thing I think I need personally is my youth back, and that ain't happening any time soon.
As a country, we need to step back from selfish interests and look closely at how we compare to other countries. We are still a wealthy nation, even if the distribution of assets is a bit skewed.
As for govt support, that depends on whether it was earned? I get SS, Navy retirement, and a small ($421 per month) disability check (agent orange and parkinson's disease). All those came from the govt. I also get about $600 per month from a regular pension, and have $35K set aside in an IRA (used to be $60K, thank you, Wall street....)
Who here will say I should turn any of that back to the govt and go live on the street? Bear in mind, I started paying in to SS in 1963, served the Navy 12.5 years active, Navy Reserve 10 years...and I never had a year that I got back more money from Uncle Sam than I paid in....every year was a taxable year, since 1963....
I don't seek redistribution of wealth, despite what some of our ubercon friends here say. I seek a larger piece of the pie for the middle class, yes, but it must be earned. There is no way that the average CEO should be making tons of money, especially when the market is down and workers are being laid off...They want the big bucks in good times, and rightfully so, if they create the good times, but they also want the big bucks in the bad times, even when they create the bad times....THAT is where greed enters the pictures.
BTW, the poll left out part of redistribution of wealth that the govt determines with no input from us mere citizens, that being the wealth of OUR nation paid out in foreign aid to countries that hate us, want to hurt us, want to bring us down.
Why is there little or no complaining from conservatives about how much money we give away to other countries?
 
Actually, you are wrong again. I give my college and the university where I did my graduate and law degrees substantial funds. Indeed my family endows four full scholarships for needy students to attend Yale. So I guess your leftwing drivel is just that.

And your can piss and moan about the rich all you want. Yale and other equivalent universities have large endowments and when I attended that college, admissions were blind meaning if someone got in, Yale made sure they could attend. Your idiotic rants are beyond worthless given that rich people are the reason why places like that have so many kids who couldn't afford to attend without help.

Rich people do give lots of money out to others that need it for education. But it won't ever been enough to close the gap. Everyone that is rich could give away all of their money to give people a higher education and it still wouldn't be enough. That has nothing to do with greed. It has to do with the sheer amount of people involved.

Which brings up another problem. In the US most of the jobs that actually pay enough to keep a person from living on welfare require higher education. This can be proven by simply driving down the right road. I've seen billboards that have matter of factly stated that you need an education beyond highschool.

So, perhaps the answer (beyond bringing factories into the US) could lie in making higher education more readily available to the general public. Maybe even making it somewhat based off of regular schooling. I mean is there really a valid reason as to why a collage costs money to attend while a high school doesn't (I'm talking about to the kid that attends..not the parents)?
 
As much as I hate to do this I have to actually agree with turtledude on something. The part bolded there is true. One way to fix it though, and increase America's ability to start gaining money is to bring those factories back to the US instead of letting them go over seas. Look at China, they've been gaining steadily for quite some time now and it has mainly to do with the fact that thier economy is based in large part on factories.

The US needs to start producing material things instead of just consuming.

that is a good point (and I don't care who said it-it matters not to me). But we make manufacturing too expensive in the states. Lots of reasons for this-overpriced labor, over priced management, too many government regulations, too many taxes.
 
that is a good point (and I don't care who said it-it matters not to me). But we make manufacturing too expensive in the states. Lots of reasons for this-overpriced labor, over priced management, too many government regulations, too many taxes.

Unions don't help either. They were originally brought about because of, or what amounted to, rights violations. I would have to say that they are no longer needed.
 
As much as I hate to do this I have to actually agree with turtledude on something. The part bolded there is true. One way to fix it though, and increase America's ability to start gaining money is to bring those factories back to the US instead of letting them go over seas. Look at China, they've been gaining steadily for quite some time now and it has mainly to do with the fact that thier economy is based in large part on factories.

The US needs to start producing material things instead of just consuming.
I am always amused at this type of comment. If you think producing something in the USA is such a good idea, why don't you start a company to produce it?

.
 
I am always amused at this type of comment. If you think producing something in the USA is such a good idea, why don't you start a company to produce it?

.

Because I neither have the resources nor the financing it would take to get a business of that size off the ground. A manufactoring company that will employ at least hundreds and produces a product by the thousands requires far more than I have. There is also the fact that there needs to be more than 1 manufacturing plant in order to help the US.

But just because I cannot do it does not mean that it is not a good idea or is not needed to be done by several someones that can do it.
 
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Why should there be a redistribution of wealth? We had that once in the world and we saw that it did not work. The best system is the one we have current. That allows the most freedom of individual and does not allow for a malevolent dictator to rule over all of us.
 
Because I neither have the resources nor the financing it would take to get a business of that size off the ground. A manufactoring company that will employ at least hundreds and produces a product by the thousands requires far more than I have. There is also the fact that there needs to be more than 1 manufacturing plant in order to help the US.

But just because I cannot do it does not mean that it is not a good idea or is not needed to be done by several someones that can do it.
You are aware that the US produces A LOT of things. We count for roughly 15% of the world's export total. That is the biggest for any nation. And if prodcing things like textiles or the junk China does. Than NO WAY. We are also one of the luckiest countries in the world that can self sustain itself for generations to come. A quarter of the world's nations can't even feed themselves let alone sustain themselves. Other nation's only wished they could model themselves after us. And sadly, it appears from posters like you on this forum. You think we should start living like the rest of the world. And I say no thank you to that.
 
The best system is the one we have current. That allows the most freedom of individual and does not allow for a malevolent dictator to rule over all of us.

The system we have now sucks. The rich pay the vast majority of all the income taxes which is used to pay for those who cannot do for themselves (I'm okay with that) and those who refuse to do for themselves (not down with that). We're also paying for illegal immigrants and their children which is completely ridiculous.

Meanwhile, we're in debt by trillions of dollars and the feds just want to keep spending and spending and spending. When does it stop??
 
The system we have now sucks. The rich pay the vast majority of all the income taxes which is used to pay for those who cannot do for themselves (I'm okay with that) and those who refuse to do for themselves (not down with that). We're also paying for illegal immigrants and their children which is completely ridiculous.

Meanwhile, we're in debt by trillions of dollars and the feds just want to keep spending and spending and spending. When does it stop??
You can't stop the government from spending. It has been proven when it is not your money. You tend on spending it like there is no tommorrow. Our system "may" suck. But its better then most other systems or nations. Our debt is nowhere near as bad as Germany's and our living standard is nowhere near as bad as Russian's or Chinease.

For those who refuse to do it for themselves. Well you can't do anything but cut the cord and have an effective LEO and judicial system to punish them if they commit more crimes than they are committing. But then again I am not down with our legal system because it is a JOKE.
 
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Unions don't help either. They were originally brought about because of, or what amounted to, rights violations. I would have to say that they are no longer needed.

I am mainly a labor and an employment rights attorney. In some industries, unions did a great deal of needed reform. In some trades, Unions taught needed skills and guaranteed a needed work standard. However, some unions are nothing more than a drag on some industries and in the public sector-there should be no unions. AFSCME is nothing more than a parasitic organization that increases the costs for taxpayers.
 
Because I neither have the resources nor the financing it would take to get a business of that size off the ground. A manufactoring company that will employ at least hundreds and produces a product by the thousands requires far more than I have. There is also the fact that there needs to be more than 1 manufacturing plant in order to help the US.

But just because I cannot do it does not mean that it is not a good idea or is not needed to be done by several someones that can do it.
What resources and/or financing did Steve Jobs or Bill Gates have before they started a business?

I guess it is just easier to sit back and bitch about others not doing something than putting forth the effort to do it yourself.


.
 
You are aware that the US produces A LOT of things. We count for roughly 15% of the world's export total. That is the biggest for any nation. And if prodcing things like textiles or the junk China does. Than NO WAY. We are also one of the luckiest countries in the world that can self sustain itself for generations to come. A quarter of the world's nations can't even feed themselves let alone sustain themselves. Other nation's only wished they could model themselves after us. And sadly, it appears from posters like you on this forum. You think we should start living like the rest of the world. And I say no thank you to that.

Problem being is that we bring in more than we send out. That is never a good thing.

U.S. INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN GOODS AND SERVICES
October 2010 - PDF


The U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, through the Department of Commerce, announced today that total October exports of $158.7 billion
and imports of $197.4 billion resulted in a goods and services deficit of $38.7 billion, down from $44.6 billion in September, revised. October exports were $4.9 billion more than September exports of $153.8 billion. October imports were $0.9 billion less than September imports of $198.4 billion.

In any case that is neither here, nor there. You could have 1-2 (not actual numbers..it is an example) companies doing the main exporting and still not have many people across the country hired. Especially when those factories could just be mainly automated.
 
What resources and/or financing did Steve Jobs or Bill Gates have before they started a business?

I guess it is just easier to sit back and bitch about others not doing something than putting forth the effort to do it yourself.


.



Tell ya what...when I figure out something that literally changes the world I'll get back to ya. ;)
 
The term "redistributed" is a loaded one. To me, redistribution means government taking from those who make income and giving it to others. I do not define redistribution as say someone working for 10 dollars an hour pursuant to their employment contract and through their labor making their employer say 12 dollars an hour (ie a two dollar net gain).

what we have done is redistribute billions of dollars through social welfare programs and yet all it does is increase dependency and has not alleviated "poverty" (though our poor today are far more materialistically better off than even our middle class was a few decades ago)
There is a degree of truth, surprisingly, in the Turtle's word.
I feel that the worst thing we can do with the poor is to give them anything of material substance.
Rather, we should tolerate and respect them, as we respect all others...
And equal opportunity is very important.
In far too many cases I have seen neither.
In this area we have a long ways to go.
 
Problem being is that we bring in more than we send out. That is never a good thing.

U.S. INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN GOODS AND SERVICES
October 2010 - PDF




In any case that is neither here, nor there. You could have 1-2 (not actual numbers..it is an example) companies doing the main exporting and still not have many people across the country hired. Especially when those factories could just be mainly automated.

I don't believe you understand much on the evolution of markets. People are considered parts of markets, in that they are a resource that has value. But the importance of that value is what are the people willing to give. To make themselves worth more. That is why we do not have as many factories as we use to. If we did. We would have many more people working for a job that would most likely give out 728 dollars every two weeks. Why? Because people would not have sophisticated jobs. Sophistication brings in higher paying jobs.

Something the government is trying to do.

You can see their efforts in promoting college's and education. There is a reason for that. But the problem is the people are not trying to reach that sophistication. And it shows. WE can't be the world's richest nation if we have a work force that is as smart as the China's. We need to be smarter. What is manufactured in the US is much more important than the millions of pins China produces. So yeah. Do you understand why we cannot have a nation that has too many factories?
 
Actually, you are wrong again. I give my college and the university where I did my graduate and law degrees substantial funds. Indeed my family endows four full scholarships for needy students to attend Yale. So I guess your leftwing drivel is just that.

And your can piss and moan about the rich all you want. Yale and other equivalent universities have large endowments and when I attended that college, admissions were blind meaning if someone got in, Yale made sure they could attend. Your idiotic rants are beyond worthless given that rich people are the reason why places like that have so many kids who couldn't afford to attend without help.

And its not "rich people" who cause smart black kids who make top grades to be called "uncle toms" by their peers. Its not rich people who cause single parent families or so many women to have children before they graduate high school which pretty much dooms those children to poverty

I have no problem reading your words. I just hope I never step in them.
 
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