View Poll Results: Redistribution of Wealth

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  • The wealth has been redistributed UPWARDS

    34 45.95%
  • The wealth has been redistributed DOWNWARDS

    33 44.59%
  • The wealth has not been redistributed

    1 1.35%
  • Other/I don't know

    6 8.11%
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Thread: Redistribution of Wealth

  1. #21
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why would the most skillful tend to accumulate, the longer a nation exists? Every generation will have talented people and untalented people. I see no reason to think that a nation should by default gravitate toward greater inequality...it depends on our policies and society.
    They don't. Turtle cannot support this and when challenged cannot provide any independent evidence to support the claim.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Boy do you miss the point. People are not angry that the rich get richer. The point is for EVERYONE to get richer. Got that? In the Fifties and Sixties the prosperity flowed through the middle class also. Unions were strong and the middle class was strong. Today, the rich get richer and everybody else is losing ground that took a generation or two to previously gain. Why do you ignore that fact?
    you seem ignorant-again-of global economic reality and the fact is-those who aren't educated in the modern information systems etc aren't going to make good wages like they could 40 years ago by working on a factory line in Detroit.

    the rich have always gotten richer. But lots of those in the middle class aren't keeping up with what it takes to remain in the middle class when a Guy in India can do the same job for 6 an hour that someone in an American Union demands 35 an hour to do

    what is your solution?



  3. #23
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    I love the taste of a good argument in the morning.

  4. #24
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    They don't. Turtle cannot support this and when challenged cannot provide any independent evidence to support the claim.
    you cannot disprove it. and you have no solutions that have any rational basis

    those who are falling behind often engage in poor life choices. If you

    1) stay in HS until you graduate
    2) avoid doing drugs and associating with those who do
    3) do not have children until you are married

    your chances of being poor are about 2%.

    Now none of the above require the rich to pay taxes or government intervention.



  5. #25
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you seem ignorant-again-of global economic reality and the fact is-those who aren't educated in the modern information systems etc aren't going to make good wages like they could 40 years ago by working on a factory line in Detroit.

    the rich have always gotten richer. But lots of those in the middle class aren't keeping up with what it takes to remain in the middle class when a Guy in India can do the same job for 6 an hour that someone in an American Union demands 35 an hour to do

    what is your solution?
    Which is a blatant lie. The unions and middle class have led this country to tremendous leaps in job productivity over the last decade and their reward has been lowered or stagnant wages if they are fortunate and job loss if they are not. What about this situation do you not get? Or is it that your ideology prohibits you from even trying to get it?

    Mu solution is to take a page from the Founding Fathers who wrote our Constitution and employ the tools they gave us to protect American markets and American jobs. You remember those guys . right?
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  6. #26
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you cannot disprove it. and you have no solutions that have any rational basis

    those who are falling behind often engage in poor life choices. If you

    1) stay in HS until you graduate
    2) avoid doing drugs and associating with those who do
    3) do not have children until you are married

    your chances of being poor are about 2%.

    Now none of the above require the rich to pay taxes or government intervention.
    Nobody here has to disprove anything you allege or claim. That responsibility - to provide support and evidence for the claim - is upon the person who makes the allegation or claim - and that would be you.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #27
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which is a blatant lie. The unions and middle class have led this country to tremendous leaps in job productivity over the last decade and their reward has been lowered or stagnant wages if they are fortunate and job loss if they are not. What about this situation do you not get? Or is it that your ideology prohibits you from even trying to get it?

    Mu solution is to take a page from the Founding Fathers who wrote our Constitution and employ the tools they gave us to protect American markets and American jobs. You remember those guys . right?
    Yeah and if those guys were alive today-most of the dem leaders and the RINOS would have been shot for treason or banished to another nation. Those people did not want non landowners voting-they feared the mob as much as the British Crown and what was the statement one made

    The country is doomed when the masses realize they can vote themselves the contents of the public treasury?

    can you prove that Unions are responsible for this alleged jump in productivity versus new technology and computer driven manufacturing methods?



  8. #28
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nobody here has to disprove anything you allege or claim. That responsibility - to provide support and evidence for the claim - is upon the person who makes the allegation or claim - and that would be you.
    you need to prove the many dubious claims you constantly make. Your main tactic is to say because something exists it is proper



  9. #29
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you need to prove the many dubious claims you constantly make. Your main tactic is to say because something exists it is proper
    What claims have I made that I have not supported? Today I started a thread which made the claim that all Americans pretty much pay the same percentage of their income towards government taxes. I supported it with a detailed study of the issue. I do back up my claims.

    What you are now attempting to do is what you have done in the past: when you get caught and you cannot provide anything but your own belief system to back you up, you attack those who ask for independent evidence from an authoritative source to support your claims. And that is where we are now and we are still waiting for it to happen.

    So far, all you have provided is your claim based on your beliefs and nothing more. You have made claims about nations and wealth and historical trends. So please support these claims with evidence.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #30
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    Re: Redistribution of Wealth

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what is your solution? taxing the rich more and telling the average citizen that he has no duty to pay for more and more government services that make him more and more dependent on the government?
    The whole point of government services is that they are paid for by the public, not by the user. Spending money on education, health care, and crimefighting are not just expenses...they are investments in society to alleviate the social ills associated with poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude
    I'd really like to hear from you all that whine about how bad wealth disparity is what your solutions are.
    1. Better education policies - Introduce school choice, have at least a few pilot programs for vouchers, longer school years/days, and demand teacher accountability. In exchange, better pay for teachers and public recognition of those teachers who do well.

    2. Criminal justice reform - End the odious war on drugs, stop locking people up for ridiculously long amounts of time for nonviolent offenses, end mandatory minimum sentencing, and make prisons a place where people can learn some skills or finish high school instead of learning new ways to commit crimes while worrying about daily rapes.

    3. Health care reform - Health care expenses are responsible for over 50% of all bankruptcies and many people cannot afford insurance on their own. Additionally, health insurance traps many people at their place of employment, because they can't pursue a new career without losing their health benefits. The new health care laws will help provide assistance for people and give access to health care to the most vulnerable members of society.

    4. Financial literacy - Government should take an active role in establishing financial literacy centers in poor communities. Many poor people are very intelligent, but no one has ever taught them the basic skills of how to manage their money. The government can help lift them out of poverty by teaching them these skills...instead of encouraging them to waste their money on state lotteries. Additionally, financial literacy should be a required subject in high schools.

    5. Better policing - Many poor communities are plagued by crime. The most effective, proven way to prevent this is through more boots on the ground, not through ridiculous sentencing laws or violations of civil liberties.

    6. Financial reform - While establishing financial literacy centers would definitely help poor communities, the government should also prevent businesses from preying on people who don't know any better. The biggest offenders are pay day lenders, credit cards, and banks. Some of the things passed by the 111th Congress have cracked down on some of the most gratuitous abuses, but frankly the new laws still aren't sufficient.

    7. Vocational training - States should establish more vocational centers in poor communities to allow people to continue their education throughout their life, in order to pursue a new career. Instead of charging tuition, which many poor people cannot afford, the vocational center could take a percentage of the person's future income for perhaps the first 10 years after they finished the program. This would also shift some of the risk from the student to the state, which is better able to bear it.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-24-10 at 12:32 AM.
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