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Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on others?

Do we generally have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on others?

  • We have a right to push our morality on others but not our beliefs.

    Votes: 3 15.0%

  • We have a right to push our beliefs on others but not our morality.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • We have a right to push both our beliefs and morality on others.

    Votes: 6 30.0%

  • We have no right to push either our beliefs or our morality on others.

    Votes: 11 55.0%
  • Total voters
    20
Kal'Stang

Kal'Stang

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Location
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Simple enough question...though the answer may not be as simple....I'm not including an "other" option however because I want people to really think about this and answer accordingly.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

No. For some reason, there are folks who seem to need validation and want us all to think and feel alike. All I can say is, "There are many kinds of voices in the world; none of them are without significance."

Now I know some will probably say, "Thou shalt not kill," is morality which needs to be pushed on others. I would ask, is it morality, or a pillar of civil society? The same holds true for stealing and a myriad of other "morals."

On the flip side, some may consider homosexuals immoral. In my view, they are not. Studies show a majority of spouses cheat. Is it our job to police infidelity?

I am not addressing the morality and beliefs we teach our kids children. A parent's job is to teach that sort of morality (like the consequences of lying).
 
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Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Depends how you define pushing, simply espousing your beliefs is fine, coercing people to unreasonable beliefs is wrong, coercing people to reasonable beliefs is hazy, as it depends on many factors.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Kal'Stang said:
Simple enough question...though the answer may not be as simple....I'm not including an "other" option however because I want people to really think about this and answer accordingly.
Click to expand...

Your right, the answer is hard. We push morality all the time in laws like do not murder or steal.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

megaprogman said:
Your right, the answer is hard. We push morality all the time in laws like do not murder or steal.
Click to expand...

Thats why I said I wanted people to think about it and then answer. The answer is obviously not black and white, however laws often do not see the grey area's of life so it often is reduced to just black and white.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

I think you're hinting this question in the context of American Imperialism, not just in general.

If the majority of the people of a nation want the US to assist, and there's a genuine humanitarian need, and you don't just install a US puppet after you leave (actually allow free elections and accept whatever result the people decide) then sure, go help out. Also, you don't need to start a decade+ long war. Take out the people who matter and get the public on your side.

International law allows for intervention on the grounds of imminent humanitarian aid.

As for in general... it depends.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

We have a right to push both our beliefs and morality on others.
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Shared values and beliefs are the basis of civilized society. It is the duty of those in charge of upholding our beliefs to impose them upon others.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Kal'Stang said:
Simple enough question...though the answer may not be as simple....I'm not including an "other" option however because I want people to really think about this and answer accordingly.
Click to expand...

What do you define as morality? No stealing, no murder, no bearing false witness in court, and etc?
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

megaprogman said:
Your right, the answer is hard. We push morality all the time in laws like do not murder or steal.
Click to expand...

there are sound reasons to oppose say murder or stealing and wanting society to punish that behaviour while other things should not be illegal even if some consider them immoral

society falls apart if murder is not punished because vendetta and vigilante responses will happen and if so, society crumbles. Society does not crumble if someone sleeps with a consenting adult of his or her same gender. society does not fall apart if someone smokes a joint in his own living room or plays with himself in his bathroom.

One can justify a ban on robbery without any appeal to morality other than saying lawless anarchy is bad. One cannot ban gay marriage, or some other things without an appeal to morality. The former results in sound laws, the latter do not
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Viktyr Korimir said:
Shared values and beliefs are the basis of civilized society. It is the duty of those in charge of upholding our beliefs to impose them upon others.
Click to expand...

"we will teach our twisted speech to the young believers
we will train our blue eyed men to be young believers"

Joe Strummer (RIP)
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

If we don't, then we might as well shut down this website :(

"Net Neutrality" may do that any way...though.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

We have no right to push our beliefs, but since morality is something which gets codified into laws and laws are the basis of organized society, so long as you're talking about it in that sense, we do have a right to push morality on others.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

megaprogman said:
Your right, the answer is hard. We push morality all the time in laws like do not murder or steal.
Click to expand...

No, this needn't be pushing morality. When I advocate for these things as a matter of law, it is because I want to live in a society with a certain level of order. If a specific number of people agree with me, we will have a more orderly society, otherwise we won't. When considered this way, it is not a matter of morality, but rather a matter of permitting the majority to determine how orderly of a society we shall have, simply because it is our desire to have it so.
 
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Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Murder and stealing have absolutely nothing to do with morality. They have to do with the interests of a community. It was not in the interests of the small Hebrew community for its members to kill each other. It was perfectly fine for them to kill and steal from others. Rape and destruction of others was allowed and even common throughout the Old Testament. Even in the New Testament some of these ideas remain. The community vs. the others I mean.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Hatuey said:
Murder and stealing have absolutely nothing to do with morality. They have to do with the interests of a community. It was not in the interests of the small Hebrew community for its members to kill each other. It was perfectly fine for them to kill and steal from others. Rape and destruction of others was allowed and even common throughout the Old Testament. Even in the New Testament some of these ideas remain. The community vs. the others I mean.
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It is quite interesting to also note that those who most readily subscribe to the notion that our rights are god given want to deny them to non-citizens. God what? Gave rights to some and not others? Interesting...
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Dezaad said:
It is quite interesting to also note that those who most readily subscribe to the notion that our rights are god given want to deny them to non-citizens. God what? Gave rights to some and not others? Interesting...
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God given rights to Protestants don't apply to dirty Catholic Mexicans.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

TurtleDude said:
"we will teach our twisted speech to the young believers
we will train our blue eyed men to be young believers"

Joe Strummer (RIP)
Click to expand...

Turtledude quoting one of the most vehement leftist rockers in all of music.

A day I thought I'd never see...
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Hatuey said:
God given rights to Protestants don't apply to dirty Catholic Mexicans.
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Not even in Mexico it seems.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

SirPwn4lot said:
Turtledude quoting one of the most vehement leftist rockers in all of music.

A day I thought I'd never see...
Click to expand...

Not quite as leftist as some would believe. He was opposed to government oppression-left or right. The Song Washington Bullets ripped the Soviets (if you can find an Afghan rebel that the Russian bullets missed, ask him what he thinks of voting communist) and the Chinese (ask the Dalai Lama in the Hills of Tibet, how many monks did the Chinese get)
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Tashah said:
Not even in Mexico it seems.
Click to expand...

I guess the cartels are bible thumping evangelists:mrgreen:
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

Kal'Stang said:
Simple enough question...though the answer may not be as simple....I'm not including an "other" option however because I want people to really think about this and answer accordingly.
Click to expand...

As of right now, 63% of voters think we have no right to push either our morality or our beliefs on others. Are you people nutz?

I have the right to insist that you cannot murder another human being. I have the right to insist that you can't steal my car. It's immoral to murder; it's immoral to steal. The list is long. What are you thinking???

Option #1 is the only answer.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

A lot of the problem here is how do we define morality and beliefs. There will be enormous variance in how one views those two terms.

Some will say that making murder or robbery against the law is only common sense, not morality, because without those two bans society would crumble.

Not necessarily. Murder is simply intentional killing without legal sanction. It could be defined in detail in any number of ways. There was a time when killing someone of certain races was overlooked. There was a time when killing another man in a duel or in mutually-agreed combat was overlooked. In modern times we've decided to apply the laws against murder to all, but it isn't that way in some nations (like Iran for instance... look at what happens to women who kill attempted rapists there).

What do you call it when the government takes your land by eminent domain, and if you don't leave they send armed cops to run you off it? Well, some have called that armed robbery under color of law...

You can pretend all these things are value judgements, or judgements about what is best for society, but what are such judgements? They are moral judgements, because they are decisions about what is right and wrong.

Where do your morals come from? From your beliefs.

In essence every law is imposing someone's morals and beliefs on others.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

We have a right to push both our beliefs and morality on others. It doesnt mean that its the RIGHT thing to do though.
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

What is politics, if not the process of codifying morality into law?
 
Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

spud_meister said:
Depends how you define pushing, simply espousing your beliefs is fine, coercing people to unreasonable beliefs is wrong, coercing people to reasonable beliefs is hazy, as it depends on many factors.
Click to expand...

Espousing your beliefs is where one should draw the line. However one of the requirements of society is law and the basis of law is morality. That part is unavoidable.
 
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