View Poll Results: Do we generally have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on others?

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  • We have a right to push our morality on others but not our beliefs.

    3 12.50%
  • We have a right to push our beliefs on others but not our morality.

    0 0%
  • We have a right to push both our beliefs and morality on others.

    6 25.00%
  • We have no right to push either our beliefs or our morality on others.

    15 62.50%
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Thread: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on others?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, you didn't. Philosophy isn't necessarily a moral belief nor is observation.
    But preference is.

  2. #42
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Or on the examination and philosophy of considering the individual in the "free state". Rights do not necessarily reflect morality.
    What do you mean by "free state?" No government?

    Your statement is a little confusing

  3. #43
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    What do you mean by "free state?" No government?

    Your statement is a little confusing
    That is part of my point. His words are loaded with moral meaning. The word free can mean a lot of things to a lot of people and generally what people prefer is what they are going to label as free.

  4. #44
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    What do you mean by "free state?" No government?

    Your statement is a little confusing
    Free state means free of external forces
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #45
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    That is part of my point. His words are loaded with moral meaning. The word free can mean a lot of things to a lot of people and generally what people prefer is what they are going to label as free.
    Well you, as Shewolf did, could ask for clarification instead of making assumptions and trying to turn what I said into something I haven't. Simple as that. A little intellectual honesty will get you far.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #46
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    But preference is.
    I made no preference, only observation and thought.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #47
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well you, as Shewolf did, could ask for clarification instead of making assumptions and trying to turn what I said into something I haven't. Simple as that. A little intellectual honesty will get you far.
    If you think I am trying to change definitions, then you are again missing my point. The fact is people have a certain definition of the word free which is based on preference. People do not label something as a freedom if they do not value it. That assigned value comes from a moral basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I made no preference, only observation and thought.
    Then you have a preference for a society other then a libertarian one?

  8. #48
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Then you have a preference for a society other then a libertarian one?
    Any one in which I can be free would be fine. But now you're making jumps again. A preference does not necessarily have to imply any form of morality. The preference can be based on data, plain and simple. Rights can exist outside morality, and a personal preference to recognize the rights and liberties of the individual is not necessarily a moral preference. But preference is not the subject, morality and belief are.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #49
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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Free state means free of external forces
    I am still confused... do you mean coercive forces? can you give an example?

    Every human event and decision is causally caused by previous events or external forces, depending on your definition of "external forces," therefore I reject (on terms of my own definition) the idea of a "free state" where humans are free of "external forces."

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    Re: Do we generall have a right to push our morality and/or our belief system on othe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Any one in which I can be free would be fine. But now you're making jumps again. A preference does not necessarily have to imply any form of morality. The preference can be based on data, plain and simple. Rights can exist outside morality, and a personal preference to recognize the rights and liberties of the individual is not necessarily a moral preference.
    Well, I guess we will have to disagree on this one. Otherwise, it looks like we are going to both rehash the same logic, since my response to this statement would basically be the same thing that I posted a few posts ago and your post looks like stuff you already posted too.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 12-24-10 at 03:06 PM.

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