View Poll Results: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

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Thread: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    But your missing the point of insurance. It's a corporation. The only goal of a corporation is to make profit (though the good ones do it in a moral way). By forcing the insurance companies to take on pre-existing conditions, you are forcing them to no longer be able to maximize a profit on their customers (without raising rates). The only way they can continue to provide coverage is to continue to make a profit - or they go bust. I agree, sure it's better for all of us if we all have insurance. But forcing insurance companies to insure everybody makes it that much more difficult to insure anybody.

    There is a problem that obviously needs to be fixed: Health Care costs. But by significantly increasing demand of healthcare (by making sure everyone has insurance and can go to the hospital) without increasing supply first is only going to make Health Care that much more expensive. So insurance companies, again, need to increase their rates to pay for more expensive health care in addition to needing to raise rates to account for all of their 'losing' customers that this law gives them no choice but to accept as customers. So they have a double incentive to raise rates, or go bust. It's a downward spiral from here. Soon none of us will be able to afford insurance (and yet we'll all have to legally buy it or pay a fine)
    You're missing the point, FredMertz. Insurance companies are already covering pre-existing conditions. And doing just fine, thank you. The secret to their "doing just fine" with pre-existing conditions is because everyone hired by a company who has a group plan must have insurance whether he wants it or not.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You're missing the point, FredMertz. Insurance companies are already covering pre-existing conditions. And doing just fine, thank you. The secret to their "doing just fine" with pre-existing conditions is because everyone hired by a company who has a group plan must have insurance whether he wants it or not.

    True... I don't deny that. But what I do deny is that they are already covering EVERY pre-existing condition. If this were the case, then this bill would obviously be obsolete and so would this debate. But this is such a hot-topic because there are a significant number of pre-existing conditions that weren't covered already.

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    True... I don't deny that. But what I do deny is that they are already covering EVERY pre-existing condition. If this were the case, then this bill would obviously be obsolete and so would this debate. But this is such a hot-topic because there are a significant number of pre-existing conditions that weren't covered already.
    And further, in a group plan, the goal is that the group pays for itself and more. So they take on pre-existing condition with their primary goal still in tact: to make a profit. When it doesn't pay for itself, they raise costs to each member of the group. It's a voluntary agreement they entered with the employer. not a government mandated agreement with each indvidual.

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    But your missing the point of insurance. It's a corporation. The only goal of a corporation is to make profit (though the good ones do it in a moral way). By forcing the insurance companies to take on pre-existing conditions, you are forcing them to no longer be able to maximize a profit on their customers (without raising rates). The only way they can continue to provide coverage is to continue to make a profit - or they go bust. I agree, sure it's better for all of us if we all have insurance. But forcing insurance companies to insure everybody makes it that much more difficult to insure anybody.

    There is a problem that obviously needs to be fixed: Health Care costs. But by significantly increasing demand of healthcare (by making sure everyone has insurance and can go to the hospital) without increasing supply first is only going to make Health Care that much more expensive. So insurance companies, again, need to increase their rates to pay for more expensive health care in addition to needing to raise rates to account for all of their 'losing' customers that this law gives them no choice but to accept as customers. So they have a double incentive to raise rates, or go bust. It's a downward spiral from here. Soon none of us will be able to afford insurance (and yet we'll all have to legally buy it or pay a fine)
    This isn't Star Trek, Feringi rules have not been applied yet, profit is not the ONLY reason for a corporation to exist.
    A service being provided is at least one other reason....
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    This isn't Star Trek, Feringi rules have not been applied yet, profit is not the ONLY reason for a corporation to exist.
    A service being provided is at least one other reason....
    and this, right when I just placed my order with Sharper Image for that tooth sharpener for you, too!
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Local co-ops covering the poor (replacing Medicaid), the old (replacing Medicare) and the sick (those with pre-existing conditions) is the way to go forward. The funds the federal gov't spends on Medicaid and Medicare need to be transfered to the local co-ops. Extra local funding should be raised through a combination of property taxes and consumption tax. Everyone who needs it and can't get it from insurance companies will be covered.

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    True... I don't deny that. But what I do deny is that they are already covering EVERY pre-existing condition. If this were the case, then this bill would obviously be obsolete and so would this debate. But this is such a hot-topic because there are a significant number of pre-existing conditions that weren't covered already.
    That's not quite right, Fred. Every pre-existing condition is covered -- in group plans. Read my post earlier. This is such a hot topic because people are deadset against the government interfering, against a government option (which we don't have btw), and against the government mandating that everyone will have to purchase health insurance....which is the only way that individual health insurance policies can cover pre-existing conditions.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    And further, in a group plan, the goal is that the group pays for itself and more. So they take on pre-existing condition with their primary goal still in tact: to make a profit. When it doesn't pay for itself, they raise costs to each member of the group. It's a voluntary agreement they entered with the employer. not a government mandated agreement with each indvidual.
    Yes, you're right here. "The group pays for itself and more. So they take on pre-existig conditions with their primary goal still i tact: to make a profit." With Obama's plan we're all going to be "in the group." As to it being a voluntary agreement the employee entered into with the employer, the only thing voluntary about it is the fact that the employee accepted his job. Barring not working for the company, the employee has absolutely no choice but to be in their health plan.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Local co-ops covering the poor (replacing Medicaid), the old (replacing Medicare) and the sick (those with pre-existing conditions) is the way to go forward. The funds the federal gov't spends on Medicaid and Medicare need to be transfered to the local co-ops. Extra local funding should be raised through a combination of property taxes and consumption tax. Everyone who needs it and can't get it from insurance companies will be covered.
    Local control leads to multiple local corruption, harder to deal with...
    The poor, and the "poor", probably don't pay property taxes, or much in the way of consumtion taxes, leaving the rich and upper middle class to pay the bills. They won't like that....
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Yes, you're right here. "The group pays for itself and more. So they take on pre-existig conditions with their primary goal still i tact: to make a profit." With Obama's plan we're all going to be "in the group." As to it being a voluntary agreement the employee entered into with the employer, the only thing voluntary about it is the fact that the employee accepted his job. Barring not working for the company, the employee has absolutely no choice but to be in their health plan.
    NOT true. the "groups" will still be as varied as they are now, and prices will still be different from employer to employer, and you can still buy your own insurance if you choose.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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