View Poll Results: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

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Thread: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

  1. #101
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Hold on a minute. First, Medicare Part D (that covers medication) has only been around a few years. Medicare never even used to pay for medications taken by prescription. And if you've been on Medicare since Part D started, you never paid one nickel toward it during your working career. Further, the premium for Part D coverage is miniscule compared to the benefits received. There are no pre-existing conditions. Diabetic going in? No problem. Benefits the same.

    The average premium for Medicare Part D is under $28/month. With no pre-existing conditions taken into account. There's a $275 deductible and a small co-pay until one reaches the donut hole. Medicare Part D is a gift.

    This entitlement attitude is going to sink our ship. It really is.
    Yes, it is basically a gift. Thank you, GWB. The pharmaceuticals thank you too.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    And the most wonderful part of all is that you realize you're that lucky duck! You deserve it all, Utah. Retired military. Thank you for your service.

    Wife deafness, huh? Sorry, hearing aids won't help.
    IT took me many years to develop selective deafness, and she wants me to throw it all away....if she really wants to communicate with me, she should try email...
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  3. #103
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    and this, right when I just placed my order with Sharper Image for that tooth sharpener for you, too!
    send it back, wait til my throat muscles get bad enough from the Parkinson's, then get me a blender...
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  4. #104
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Insurance is a service to protect you from things that might happen. What you are doing, essentially, is betting that the bad thing you are getting coverage for will occur, while the insurance provider is betting that it will not; the odds of those events happening to you are calculated and set the payouts for the bet. The more likely the event and the more insurance coverage, the more you have to pay in premiums. This isn't any more evil than sports betting; it's the exact same process, and it's how insurance works.

    A pre-existing condition is not something that might happen. A pre-existing condition is something that has already happened and will continue to happen. Insurance coverage for pre-existing conditions is fundamentally asking a bookie-- a very smart, professional bookie with a team of actuaries-- to bet against a guaranteed outcome. It breaks the way insurance works, which means that companies that sell insurance don't profit, and if they don't profit they cannot continue to provide insurance.

    The problem with healthcare in this country is not that people cannot get insurance. The problem with healthcare in this country is that people can't afford it without insurance.
    thats all fine and dandy, but just simply not true. If a company denies you because of a pre-existing condition, it is NOT something that will continue to happen. and even if it WAS this is people health we are talking about, LIFE and DEATH. why should anyone have to hide there health from the people who are supposed to be insuring it?? This is not a game of poker, there should be no betting at all!! if your sick, see a doctor, thats how it should be.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    forcing insurance agencies to accept anyone with preexisting conditions will destroy the insurance industry so that the rest of us will either be forced into bankruptcy in order to gain what coverage is left, or simply do without.

    clearer now?
    That's why we also have an insurance mandate...so that people can't "simply do without." They have to pay into insurance when they're healthy, instead of just waiting until they get sick to sign up. Health insurers are mostly OK with the ban on preexisting conditions, as long as it's coupled with an insurance mandate. What WON'T work is to ban preexisting conditions AND not have an insurance mandate...which, bizarrely, seems to be the position that many Republican governors have adopted ever since health care reform passed.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-23-10 at 07:47 PM.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's why we also have an insurance mandate...so that people can't "simply do without." They have to pay into insurance when they're healthy, instead of just waiting until they get sick to sign up. Health insurers are mostly OK with the ban on preexisting conditions, as long as it's coupled with an insurance mandate. What WON'T work is to ban preexisting conditions AND not have an insurance mandate...which, bizarrely, seems to be the position that many Republican governors have adopted ever since health care reform passed.

    It also is the position taken by a federal judge recently. if the mandate isn't legal, the whole system is going to be unsustainable.

    Oh, well. What we had before "Obamacare" wasn't sustainable either.
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  7. #107
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's why we also have an insurance mandate...so that people can't "simply do without."
    except the mandate is A) unconstitutional and B) insufficient. if i can pay a 500 dollar 'fine' or a 12,000 insurance premium; and the result is that i am insured in case of disease or injury either way.... why in the world would i want to lose an unnecessary $11,500?
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-24-10 at 12:06 AM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It also is the position taken by a federal judge recently. if the mandate isn't legal, the whole system is going to be unsustainable.
    i think you meant even more unsustainable.

    but yes; it's going to come crashing down.

    which, mind you, was the intent all along; they're going to use the crash to push for single-payer via the halfway point of a public option.

    only problem is, if this thing crashes with Republicans in charge of the House, they are screwed, and the only option left is market liberalization. woops.

  9. #109
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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i think you meant even more unsustainable.

    but yes; it's going to come crashing down.

    which, mind you, was the intent all along; they're going to use the crash to push for single-payer via the halfway point of a public option.

    only problem is, if this thing crashes with Republicans in charge of the House, they are screwed, and the only option left is market liberalization. woops.
    I'm not so sure that market liberalization is going to keep the system from crashing. The costs keep going up, and Obamacare regs are likely to make costs go up even faster. A simple measure like allowing competition across state lines might help, but isn't going to keep the system sustainable. The best option is probably a partnership between government and private enterprise, with the government providing a high deductible catastrophic care package that covers everyone.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Do you think no more preexisting conditions is right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    except the mandate is A) unconstitutional and B) insufficient. if i can pay a 500 dollar 'fine' or a 12,000 insurance premium; and the result is that i am insured in case of disease or injury either way.... why in the world would i want to lose an unnecessary $11,500?
    A) No it isn't. The federal government has been regulating interstate commerce for decades, and there is literally zero chance that the courts are going to reverse course now. The trivial distinction that is being drawn - regulating inactivity instead of just regulating activity - is meaningless, and is just grasping at straws by those who WANT it to be overturned regardless of the law. In any case, the legal question could easily be solved: Just raise taxes on everyone, and offer a tax credit for anyone who has health insurance. The overall economic effect would be exactly the same, and it would eliminate the question of whether it's a "fine" or a "tax." The courts certainly aren't going to rule a tax credit unconstitutional.

    B) If it's insufficient, that sounds to me like a pretty good argument to increase the amount of the fine.
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