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Is the current healthcare system (before the new bill) broken? yes/no for now.

Is the current healthcare system (before the new bill) broken? yes/no for now.

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O_Guru

O_Guru

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Im trying to get some honest TALK going on. There is so much black and white thinking going on, partisan debate and blind political spin Id like to see who has real and honest ideas and opinions.

This is my stand on healthcare:


"I wont call health care a right but in this country there should definitely be a system out there or systems that make it affordable to all and yes that will mean some will benefit more so then others thats just life. No body should die in this country simply because lake of coverage or because of greedy insurance companies and their shady dealings."

With that said the newest healthcare bills passed (which is NOT government run thats bias spin) may or may not work/help, people may or may or may not like it and thats totally fine by me.

BUT IMO anybody that thinks health care was fine just the way it was is lying to themselves. Health care was definitely broken, denying that is simply ignorance, and it needs fixed we just gotta figure that fix out!

Again this is not support of the recent health care bill this is only saying the old health care was in fact broke and Id like to know what people think it would take to help fix it?

anything real and objective?
 
I personally think it's too nuanced for a simple (did someone mention "black and white"?) "yes or no" answer to suffice.

Rather, I think some parts of it are broken, but am not entirely sure which exact ones.

At the same time, I think some parts of it are not at all broken, but again am not entirely sure which exact ones.

For the former, the insurance costs come to mind, along with lawsuit costs. Further, I think there is in some cases too much emphasis on more "traditional" medicine, and a corresponding lack of emphasis or even negative emphasis on the less "traditional" methods.

For the latter, I think the R&D in many areas might be one of the best in the world, and I think the current system tends to support that, in a way. Even the less traditional medicinal methods have people working on them.
Also, would-be doctors (and perhaps other medical staff?) come here to train, I think, so we apparently have one of the better medical training systems around.

If there were a way to keep the good parts of our system, while fixing the bad parts, I’d be all for it.

Trouble is, I don’t think the current incarnation of the healthcare bill is it.

And personally, I would rather have some of the bad with the good, if that’s necessary to keep the good.
 
The Mark said:
I personally think it's too nuanced for a simple (did someone mention "black and white"?) "yes or no" answer to suffice.

Rather, I think some parts of it are broken, but am not entirely sure which exact ones.

At the same time, I think some parts of it are not at all broken, but again am not entirely sure which exact ones.

For the former, the insurance costs come to mind, along with lawsuit costs. Further, I think there is in some cases too much emphasis on more "traditional" medicine, and a corresponding lack of emphasis or even negative emphasis on the less "traditional" methods.

For the latter, I think the R&D in many areas might be one of the best in the world, and I think the current system tends to support that, in a way. Even the less traditional medicinal methods have people working on them.
Also, would-be doctors (and perhaps other medical staff?) come here to train, I think, so we apparently have one of the better medical training systems around.

If there were a way to keep the good parts of our system, while fixing the bad parts, I’d be all for it.

Trouble is, I don’t think the current incarnation of the healthcare bill is it.

And personally, I would rather have some of the bad with the good, if that’s necessary to keep the good.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with your first statement but my intent is to make people talk, to many people have a firm stand and say it was all broken or all fine, im trying to get people to admit that its grey by forcing them to pick yes or know which yes is VERY black and white but THEN by explaining their stance thats all.

My guess is that if I had a third option not forcing a pick many would pick the in the middle but then to just proceed to say 100% good or 100% bad

actually my guess is no matter how I formatted the poll people will still do this sadly :(

I guess in ways its more directed at people that insisit it was fine and say we dont need ANY healthcare reform.
 
Its not broken as much as it is fundamentally flawed, by assymmetric information and people's love of the utmost privacy.
 
O_Guru said:
Love of privacy? explain
Click to expand...

If people were willing to undergo complete disclosure as part of a life insurance or health insurance policy, and if companies could run all the tests they need efficiently or better yet have applicants pay for those tests as a pre-screening fee, it would take the uncertainty out for the insurance company. Of course, I don't know anything about the cost of running such tests, and whether its viable for people to pay for them.

In general, the less the consumer gives the insurer, the worse the peaches vs. lemons problem, the more expensive health insurance for everyone. Sorry, I didn't really get my point across with the last post.
 
O_Guru said:
Im trying to get some honest TALK going on. There is so much black and white thinking going on, partisan debate and blind political spin Id like to see who has real and honest ideas and opinions.

This is my stand on healthcare:


"I wont call health care a right but in this country there should definitely be a system out there or systems that make it affordable to all and yes that will mean some will benefit more so then others thats just life. No body should die in this country simply because lake of coverage or because of greedy insurance companies and their shady dealings."

With that said the newest healthcare bills passed (which is NOT government run thats bias spin) may or may not work/help, people may or may or may not like it and thats totally fine by me.
Click to expand...

Healthcare, the way it is (was), is broken. I've been an entrepreneur all of my life. Always purchased my own health insurance because I had assets to lose. Obviously, what I purchased was individual insurance. All individual insurance policies have very tough pre-existing conditions limitations. And once a person contracts something that makes him uninsurable (the list is pretty long), that person can't change insurance companies.

Before I enrolled in Illinois' ICHIP insurance program, I was paying $850/month for a $5,000 deductible policy through American Family Insurance....with rates escalating at 15-20% per year. Further, the government only let me deduct a portion of that premium....while people who have sometimes even free health insurance through their employers don't have to claim the premiums their companies pay as income.

Most people could not afford to pay $850/month for one person's insurance. So guess what happens to them? They drop their coverage and run the risk that they will lose everything they've worked for through their whole life should they have a catastrophic health problem. I'm lucky now. Through Illinois' ICHIP program, I only have to pay $650/month. Yay!! How many people can afford that? How many couples would be able to afford $1300/month to cover them both?

People who get laid off from their jobs have an opportunity to keep their insurance through a program called COBRA for two years, I think. They are absolutely gobsmacked when they find out how much it's going to cost them because when they lose their group coverage, they go into a general pool and their rates get jacked out of sight. Many of these people just go without health insurance. Because they can't afford it. And risk losing everything they have.

People working for others who have absolutely wonderful entrepreneurial ideas can't go off on their own to go into business for themselves. Why? They can't afford their health insurance on an individual basis. They're trapped in their 9 to 5 and wondering what they did wrong.

Yes, our healthcare system is broken. Most people aren't as aware of it as they should be because they are getting their insurance through their employer....no pre-existing conditions clauses in those group plans...but if they lose that job and they have a pre-existing condition? They find themselves uninsurable.

It's gotta be fixed.
 
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repeter said:
If people were willing to undergo complete disclosure as part of a life insurance or health insurance policy, and if companies could run all the tests they need efficiently or better yet have applicants pay for those tests as a pre-screening fee, it would take the uncertainty out for the insurance company. Of course, I don't know anything about the cost of running such tests, and whether its viable for people to pay for them.
Click to expand...

Yes, and insurance companies would end up excluding the skin and all its contents. That is an absolutely horrible idea. (No offense; just an indication that you don't have a real clear understanding of the problem.)
 
repeter said:
If people were willing to undergo complete disclosure as part of a life insurance or health insurance policy, and if companies could run all the tests they need efficiently or better yet have applicants pay for those tests as a pre-screening fee, it would take the uncertainty out for the insurance company. Of course, I don't know anything about the cost of running such tests, and whether its viable for people to pay for them.

In general, the less the consumer gives the insurer, the worse the peaches vs. lemons problem, the more expensive health insurance for everyone. Sorry, I didn't really get my point across with the last post.
Click to expand...

no biggie I just wondered what exactly you meant. This is one aspect I didnt think of and I dont doubt it goes on but do you think it happens on the patient end that much? Me personally i dont keep anything secret from my doc. I know people that simply DONT go SEE the doctor but they dont keep stuff from them that "I" know of

ive heard more cases of doctors themselves blowing tests and things off because of HMOs than I have patients BUT it is an interesting take, thanks
 
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MaggieD said:
Healthcare, the way it is (was), is broken. I've been an entrepreneur all of my life. Always purchased my own health insurance because I had assets to lose. Obviously, what I purchased was individual insurance. All individual insurance policies have very tough pre-existing conditions limitations. And once a person contracts something that makes him uninsurable (the list is pretty long), that person can't change insurance companies.

Before I enrolled in Illinois' ICHIP insurance program, I was paying $850/month for a $5,000 deductible policy through American Family Insurance....with rates escalating at 15-20% per year. Further, the government only let me deduct a portion of that premium....while people who have sometimes even free health insurance through their employers don't have to claim the premiums their companies pay as income.

Most people could not afford to pay $850/month for one person's insurance. So guess what happens to them? They drop their coverage and run the risk that they will lose everything they've worked for through their whole life should they have a catastrophic health problem. I'm lucky now. Through Illinois' ICHIP program, I only have to pay $650/month. Yay!! How many people can afford that? How many couples would be able to afford $1300/month to cover them both?

People who get laid off from their jobs have an opportunity to keep their insurance through a program called COBRA for two years, I think. They are absolutely gobsmacked when they find out how much it's going to cost them because when they lose their group coverage, they go into a general pool and their rates get jacked out of sight. Many of these people just go without health insurance. Because they can't afford it. And risk losing everything they have.

People working for others who have absolutely wonderful entrepreneurial ideas can't go off on their own to go into business for themselves. Why? They can't afford their health insurance on an individual basis. They're trapped in their 9 to 5 and wondering what they did wrong.

Yes, our healthcare system is broken. Most people aren't as aware of it as they should be because they are getting their insurance through their employer....no pre-existing conditions clauses in those group plans...but if they lose that job and they have a pre-existing condition? They find themselves uninsurable.

It's gotta be fixed.
Click to expand...

very good post
because its REALITY

and yes Im familar with thos cobra letters
To whom it may concern due to your recent lay-off, job transfer etc etc we are obligated to offer you medical insurance for your continued health needs for the low prices of $864 a month we can continue the coverage of you and your daughter at a near equal level.

Its a total joke and absolute BS letter
hello, you first sentences talked about me getting laid off and now you are asking for 864 a month and you know im a single dad??????????????????????????????

oh sure I got that right her in my pocket LMAO

what a complete joke, luckily for you, you could manage, sorta, good for you!
of course its broken and need fixed
 
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MaggieD said:
Yes, and insurance companies would end up excluding the skin and all its contents. That is an absolutely horrible idea. (No offense; just an indication that you don't have a real clear understanding of the problem.)
Click to expand...

You mean deny people for pre-existing conditions? If thats what you're getting at, yeah we're going to need government regulation to prevent that, because thats just good business.
 
O_Guru said:
asoon as I read the banner GOVERMENT healthcare I dont know what he is talking about since we dont have that nor does the bill provide that
Click to expand...

This conversation was when the 2000 some odd page monstrosity was still in the making I believe.
Besides, it is a Government HC plan. It's just not a single payer, but is designed to bankrupt private insurance co. to eventually get there.
 
Barbbtx said:
This conversation was when the 2000 some odd page monstrosity was still in the making I believe.
Besides, it is a Government HC plan. It's just not a single payer, but is designed to bankrupt private insurance co. to eventually get there.
Click to expand...

the time doesnt matter because the fact remains it is NOT goverment run health care its still privately ran and thats a fact
 
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