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Do You believe Noah?

Do you believe Noah?


  • Total voters
    70
The only part which is even remotely plausible in that story is that a flood happened. Big, f'n, woop.
I dunno.

It's plausible to me that the whole thing is just a greatly exaggerated story about a guy surviving a large flood that reached the tops of the hills in the area on a large raft he built to hold him, his family, and the domesticated animals he owned...

Although I’ve heard people hypothesize about the referenced flood being due to the ice caps melting for some reason…dunno exactly how that would happen…
 
I dunno.

It's plausible to me that the whole thing is just a greatly exaggerated story about a guy surviving a large flood that reached the tops of the hills in the area on a large raft he built to hold him, his family, and the domesticated animals he owned...

Although I’ve heard people hypothesize about the referenced flood being due to the ice caps melting for some reason…dunno exactly how that would happen…

It woudn't, of course. The Bible says it rained "40 days and 40 nights", the number 40 having been translated from a word that meant "many". So, it rained a long time, and there was a flood. It was probably a literary flood, much like the sour grapes that the fox couldn't reach in Aesop's fable. It could have been a real flood, and it is possible that Noah built a boat and saved his farm animals, but it is more likely that the whole story is just an allegory.
 
Look people. Noah didnt live till 900+ years. Thats stupid.
He also didnt build an ark that could hold EVERY frekin' animal in the world PLUS thier mate!

Does Jesus exist? Up to you.
Is there a God? Up to YOU!

I believe in God. I dont believe in Noah's struggle. I ALSO dont believe Jonah! In FACT... maybe I should make a poll regarding Jonah. Hmmmmmmm
 
" Now Jonah now he lived in a whale.
Yeah Jonah he lived in a whale
Yet he made his home in that
Fish's abdomen.
Jonah he lived in a whale.

I said, ain't necessarily so.
No, ain't necessarily so.
The things you're liable
To read in a bible
Ain't necessarily so.
Ain't necessarily so.
No, it ain't necessarily so."
G&I Gershwin.
 
Does Jesus exist? Up to you.
Is there a God? Up to YOU!
I disagree.

Jesus and god either exist or they do NOT exist. Its not up to you or me whether it is true that jesus or god exists.

It is up to you whether you BELIEVE they exist or not. But either way your BELIEFS do NOT change reality. E.G., if I believe there is a Ferrari in my garage it doesn't make it true.
 
Tends to happen with floods.
Again, tends to happen with floods.
Not really unusual for a rainy season.

This is where there's a disconnect... I do understand your point, but there's the matter of the scale in the descriptions

And what about the warnings to people that DONT come true, those tend to be quite a bit more numerous.

See but in many of those ancient myths it's suggested that God exists / existed along side man... there's also stories of 'giants' in ancient times (Gen 6, David vs Goliath), but there's not really any evidence of that being true either.

Again, not unusual for a flood.

What you describe happens regardless of where a flood happens so I'd say the bolded is much more likely.

Ok, but where did the water GO after the flood? Did it magically disappear?

That's a tough call... and (assuming truth) it depends on the nature of the flood, the nature of god in these myths, and a number of other factors.

It really boils down to faith... you're either going to believe or you're not...

One thing you have to consider is that if you did add that much water to earth through some outside means, you'd essentially destroy Earth about fifty different ways. And I dont mean like "Oops, I killed a few plants." I mean like dead dead, all life wiped out, not even bacteria left.

No, I get that, I mean, if it was water coming in from outer space it would be ice and therefore solid enough to destroy everything... but for the sake of argument let's say the flood came from technological means, there's a few different ways I could conceive the accomplishment... where did it go?? Well, the oceans hold ALOT of water... and since we're talking somewhere between 6-11000 years ago, can we say definitively that the oceans were the same levels then prior to this flood??

We know where the oceans sat and we know the technology level of when the flood is reputed to have happened.

Oh, do we really??? At best we got a good idea about when these stories were WRITTEN, when these stories actually happened is speculative at best.

If that's true, I'm going to want to see some evidence of it.

Naturally any evidence is under the ocean...

That's comforting? What makes you think your energy will remain intact when you die and wont dissipate to thousands of other things?

Ya... that is a comfort... it's hard to verbalize why it's a comfort, but I do find comfort in that.

As for the rest, there's no real way to conclusively PROVE what's gone on, but I do think of the old testament as something of a history of humans pre-history.... though I'm sure that there's lots that's been lost in translation, is metaphor, etc...
 
can you prove he did not?

can you prove he didn't?

According to the Bible, Noah did not 'find' the animals, they came to him.

I guess God couldn't keep animals from eating each other if he didn't want them to, huh

Ever hear the story of the loaves and fish?


That's how easy it is to negate the OP, if you're religious. If you're not, you'll probably think the OP is 'God'. (pun intended)
First two claims equate to asking us to prove a negative, thus committing the fallacy of negative proof.
Third & fourth was rubbish that is just making random claims w/o supporting evidence. The fourth is possible to do, splitting a loaf into however many parts needed sure, but everyone would've starved in the first place given the small portion of food.

The third is utterly foolish, as it does not even address the arguments given. It is physically impossible for the darned ark to float.
In conclusion, the Ark story is utter bull. Sorry for bursting your bubble.
 
Do I believe in Noah?

A better question is do I believe the Abrahamic God is the biggest Liar and Deceiver of all time?

No to both.
 
This is where there's a disconnect... I do understand your point, but there's the matter of the scale in the descriptions
Erm..how so?

See but in many of those ancient myths it's suggested that God exists / existed along side man... there's also stories of 'giants' in ancient times (Gen 6, David vs Goliath), but there's not really any evidence of that being true either.
....ok...and?

That's a tough call... and (assuming truth) it depends on the nature of the flood, the nature of god in these myths, and a number of other factors.

It really boils down to faith... you're either going to believe or you're not...
I have zero problem with belief. It's when you start trying to get me to accept these things as literal fact that I get edgy

No, I get that, I mean, if it was water coming in from outer space it would be ice and therefore solid enough to destroy everything
No...it wouldnt. The ice would burn away into water vapor long before it entered the atmosphere and that much water would actually throw the gravitation of the Earth off and probably knock it out of it's orbit.

... but for the sake of argument let's say the flood came from technological means, there's a few different ways I could conceive the accomplishment... where did it go?? Well, the oceans hold ALOT of water... and since we're talking somewhere between 6-11000 years ago, can we say definitively that the oceans were the same levels then prior to this flood??
Ok, the AMOUNT of water on Earth NEVER changes. Ocean levels rise and fall with the shrinking or growing of the polar ice caps. The bigger the ice caps, the lower the ocean levels. A change in the level of the oceans doesnt actually effect how much water there is on Earth.

Oh, do we really??? At best we got a good idea about when these stories were WRITTEN, when these stories actually happened is speculative at best.
In the time-frame (roughly) provided, we have a good idea of what our capabilities were and the ark is not within that range.

Naturally any evidence is under the ocean...
And that evidence consists of what exactly?

Ya... that is a comfort... it's hard to verbalize why it's a comfort, but I do find comfort in that.
I find it a little odd, but to each their own

As for the rest, there's no real way to conclusively PROVE what's gone on, but I do think of the old testament as something of a history of humans pre-history.... though I'm sure that there's lots that's been lost in translation, is metaphor, etc...
Simply because something cant be disproven doesn't automatically make it true.
 
Look people. Noah didnt live till 900+ years. Thats stupid.
He also didnt build an ark that could hold EVERY frekin' animal in the world PLUS thier mate!

Does Jesus exist? Up to you.
Is there a God? Up to YOU!

I believe in God. I dont believe in Noah's struggle. I ALSO dont believe Jonah! In FACT... maybe I should make a poll regarding Jonah. Hmmmmmmm

No, it's not up to you. Either Jesus was real or not. What you believe about it is irrelevant. Either God exists or not. What you believe is irrelevant. You don't get to decide what reality is. You either get to accept reality as it actually is or you get to be delusional. Your personal beliefs have no bearing on what is.
 
I'm not Christian (never baptized anything) and I don't believe any of it.
 
My belief in God is not predicated on whether or not the stories contained within the Bible are "literally" true. I do believe Noah existed and I believe there was a great flood and an ark.
 
My belief in God is not predicated on whether or not the stories contained within the Bible are "literally" true. I do believe Noah existed and I believe there was a great flood and an ark.

Do you believe that two of every kiknd of kangaroo, two of every poisonous snake, two koalas, etc., all madde their way across the ocean back to Australia and repopulated that continent?

How?
 
Do you believe that two of every kiknd of kangaroo, two of every poisonous snake, two koalas, etc., all madde their way across the ocean back to Australia and repopulated that continent?

How?
Divine teleportation...

:mrgreen:

Or, since there's apparently a flood story/fable/myth/whatever of some sort in many places all over the world, then there was a noah-analog, an ark-analog, and such. So it was only the animals from that land-mass or area that were on the individual arks.

Who knows?

I'm throwing ideas at a wall here. A wall made of chicken wire.
 
Is there any proof that all the flood stories of the various cultures of the world all coincide? No one has mentioned this point. Even if every group of people ever had a flood story, if the stories do not coincide on the timeline, then chances are very good that there was not one major flood, but rather several smaller floods (although they might have seemed huge to the people in that area) in different places around the world.
 
Is there any proof that all the flood stories of the various cultures of the world all coincide? No one has mentioned this point. Even if every group of people ever had a flood story, if the stories do not coincide on the timeline, then chances are very good that there was not one major flood, but rather several smaller floods (although they might have seemed huge to the people in that area) in different places around the world.

No, there isn't. Other than a flood, most stories have nothing whatsoever in common. Unfortunately, you get apologists who conveniently "forget" that fact and claim that the very existence of the stories is proof that their own myth must be true. Why isn't it proof that someone else's myth is true? We can't exactly expect honesty from these people.
 
Do you believe that two of every kiknd of kangaroo, two of every poisonous snake, two koalas, etc., all madde their way across the ocean back to Australia and repopulated that continent?

How?


They're there, aren't they? :mrgreen:

As to how, I do not know with certainty. I just know it happened.
 
They're there, aren't they? :mrgreen:

As to how, I do not know with certainty. I just know it happened.

No, you believe that it happened. Knowledge requires a rational basis. It requires evidence. You have none.
 
My belief in God is not predicated on whether or not the stories contained within the Bible are "literally" true. I do believe Noah existed and I believe there was a great flood and an ark.

Why would you believe in Noah? and the flood? and the ark? The logistics of just the animal part is impossible. Then you get that Noah lived 900+ years. No way man. Then he built the ark which would be the size of a huge zoo. Then the food..... and the animals not eating each other. It is soooooooooo foolish. I cant believe anyone would think it to be real.
 
No, you believe that it happened. Knowledge requires a rational basis. It requires evidence. You have none.

So?


Why would you believe in Noah? and the flood? and the ark? The logistics of just the animal part is impossible. Then you get that Noah lived 900+ years. No way man. Then he built the ark which would be the size of a huge zoo. Then the food..... and the animals not eating each other. It is soooooooooo foolish. I cant believe anyone would think it to be real.

Such belief requires faith in God's ability to make it happen. So what if it doesn't make logical sense? Faith isn't always "logical". I wasn't there so I can't speak to the logistical challenges and how they were addressed, but I believe it did happen.

So you'll believe something even if it contridicts what you can test in your own sink?

Do I believe just anything? No. Do I believe in God and His ability to make such an event take place? Yes. Such faith doesn't require anyone's approval or agreement.
 
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That's as good a demonstration of religious faith as any. Believing something in spite of evidence to the contrary.
 
That's as good a demonstration of religious faith as any. Believing something in spite of evidence to the contrary.
Only evidence that humans can't do it on their own - obviously, it's not evidence that a supremely powerful being is unable to do so...

That's the thing about belief in a supremely powerful being - since it can do anything, anything is possible.
 
No, you believe that it happened. Knowledge requires a rational basis. It requires evidence. You have none.
So?
Some people desire to know whats true even if it contradicts what we personally hope or wish is true. Perhaps you don't value truth.

So what if it doesn't make logical sense?Faith isn't always "logical".
What type of "sense" does it make? Emotional sense? intuitive sense?
How reliable ae these "senses"?

You believe your god gave you a brain right? Why are you so determined to NOT utilize what it provides: reason and logic.

I wasn't there so I can't speak to the logistical challenges and how they were addressed, but I believe it did happen.
You can BELIEVE whatever you like. That the sky is red, that you are the most beautiful and smart person in the world, etc. Your beliefs are irrelevant to reality. Your beliefs are irrelevant to what any gods did or did NOT do.

Do I believe just anything? No. Do I believe in God and His ability to make such an event take place? Yes. Such faith doesn't require anyone's approval or agreement.
How exactly do you determine what your God(s) did or did NOT do?

1) Unverifiable personal testimonials
2) Personal opinions
3) Writings in old/new promotional literature
4) “Revelations” from “prophets” or “seers”
5) Accounts from wide ranging, independent sources that are in general agreement
6) Accounts from sources that are not connected or involved with the claim or story
7) Findings that have been widely tested and verified by others
8) Findings that you can test personally if you choose
 
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