View Poll Results: Do you believe Noah?

Voters
83. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im Christian. I believe his age and the Ark

    9 10.84%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe the Ark. I believe his age

    1 1.20%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe his age but I believe the Ark.

    2 2.41%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe EITHER his age nor the Ark.

    10 12.05%
  • Not Christian but I believe both the age and the Ark

    2 2.41%
  • Not Christian and its total and utter rubbish!

    49 59.04%
  • Other / I dont Know

    10 12.05%
Page 15 of 24 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 237

Thread: Do You believe Noah?

  1. #141
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,787

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    People need to believe these things. Otherwise their lives have no meaning. They can't find meaning in their existence by taking care of their kids. They can't find meaning in their existence by being good to their neighbors. They must be told that if they do these things, they will be rewarded. It is the reward of being a good person that they seek. They're not good for the sake of their own happiness, they are good for what they stand to gain at the end of their lives.
    So essentially, you're saying these people are pathetic, stupid losers who can't find value in reality so that gives them license to just make up a bunch of nonsense to believe because it makes them feel good at the end of the day?

    And you really believe that? Really?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  2. #142
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,048

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    So essentially, you're saying these people are pathetic, stupid losers who can't find value in reality
    No. I am saying that they can't find purpose in the reality they live so they must A) create the purpose for that life(Heaven, Paradise etc) and B) build their lives around that purpose (going to church, being good neighbors, giving to charity etc). The 'pathetic, stupid losers' thing is your own addition.

    so that gives them license to just make up a bunch of nonsense to believe because it makes them feel good at the end of the day?
    It's not that it gives them the lisence to make up as much nonsense as they want. People in this thread didn't make all that nonsense in the bible. They find meaning in it and build their lives around it.

    And you really believe that? Really?
    Believe what? That religion allows people to find meaning in their lives? Sure I do. I also believe that without religion these people would not be able to find meaning in simply living their lives as best they can. I do it every day. I find meaning in my work, my family and my neighbors. My daughter is the purpose for my life. I didn't make her up. I didn't imagine her. I didn't need to read about her in a book. I'm not good because I feel I myself will be rewarded for it when I die. I try to be a good person so that she will do the same. I'm not a good person because of some benefit I will reap when I die.

    Religion is a control mechanism. People are pious because they believe that the more pious they are, the greater the benefit. With centuries, this mechanism has become a culture. Christianity, Islam and every other religion are cultures that are passed down from generation to generation. It's pretty interesting because religion forces the human being to behave if it wants to reap the benefits promised by some force they can't seem to prove.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-09-10 at 03:25 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #143
    Technomancer
    Hoplite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    05-08-11 @ 03:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,779

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Believe what? That religion allows people to find meaning in their lives? Sure I do. I also believe that without religion these people would not be able to find meaning in simply living their lives as best they can. I do it every day. I find meaning in my work, my family and my neighbors. My daughter is the purpose for my life. I didn't make her up. I didn't imagine her. I didn't need to read about her in a book. I'm not good because I feel I myself will be rewarded for it when I die. I try to be a good person so that she will do the same. I'm not a good person because of some benefit I will reap when I die.
    I understand what you mean, but you also have to consider that many people feel some...extra force out there. I cant describe it in words very well, but it's a feeling that there are things beyond what you can see and there is a presence there, however you choose to define it, that is too big to be ignored. I would probably not be religious but for that.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

  4. #144
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    I don't believe the Noah story for (and to be brutally honest with myself) any other reason than that its a story with many fantastic elements and seems to contradict my life experience and knowledge of how things work.

  5. #145
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,048

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    I understand what you mean, but you also have to consider that many people feel some...extra force out there. I cant describe it in words very well, but it's a feeling that there are things beyond what you can see and there is a presence there, however you choose to define it, that is too big to be ignored. I would probably not be religious but for that.
    That's an interesting thought. I believe religion exists because people are not able to explain everything around them so they must attribute it to something else. The evolution of religion in human culture is proof of this. Most people would not say that fire is a god. However 5,000 years ago you had cultures all over the world who said that it was. When people couldn't explain lightning they'd blame Zeus. Today we know lightning is not caused by any gods. We also know the oceans are controlled by currents. Not Poseidon or mermaids. The more we know, the less use we have for gods.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #146
    Technomancer
    Hoplite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    05-08-11 @ 03:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,779

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's an interesting thought. I believe religion exists because people are not able to explain everything around them so they must attribute it to something else. The evolution of religion in human culture is proof of this. Most people would not say that fire is a god. However 5,000 years ago you had cultures all over the world who said that it was. When people couldn't explain lightning they'd blame Zeus. Today we know lightning is not caused by any gods. We also know the oceans are controlled by currents. Not Poseidon or mermaids. The more we know, the less use we have for gods.
    I think religion started that way and it persists in part because we seek an ultimate explanation, but I also feel that it persists because those who are religious do feel this sort of extraneous force.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

  7. #147
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    dimensionally transcendental
    Last Seen
    08-15-11 @ 04:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,153

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. I am saying that they can't find purpose in the reality they live so they must A) create the purpose for that life(Heaven, Paradise etc) and B) build their lives around that purpose (going to church, being good neighbors, giving to charity etc). The 'pathetic, stupid losers' thing is your own addition.



    It's not that it gives them the lisence to make up as much nonsense as they want. People in this thread didn't make all that nonsense in the bible. They find meaning in it and build their lives around it.



    Believe what? That religion allows people to find meaning in their lives? Sure I do. I also believe that without religion these people would not be able to find meaning in simply living their lives as best they can. I do it every day. I find meaning in my work, my family and my neighbors. My daughter is the purpose for my life. I didn't make her up. I didn't imagine her. I didn't need to read about her in a book. I'm not good because I feel I myself will be rewarded for it when I die. I try to be a good person so that she will do the same. I'm not a good person because of some benefit I will reap when I die.

    Religion is a control mechanism. People are pious because they believe that the more pious they are, the greater the benefit. With centuries, this mechanism has become a culture. Christianity, Islam and every other religion are cultures that are passed down from generation to generation. It's pretty interesting because religion forces the human being to behave if it wants to reap the benefits promised by some force they can't seem to prove.
    So, essentially... you're a better person than people who are religious... because you don't need religion?

    Arrogant attitude.

  8. #148
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    People need to believe these things. Otherwise their lives have no meaning.
    1) I don't think its reasonable to speculate on the private thoughts or motivations of others unless told.

    2) If people need to believe in god and supernaturalism to find meaning in their lives then that is their own personal failing. Most atheists find plenty of meaning in their life without a god or supernaturalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    They can't find meaning in their existence by taking care of their kids. They can't find meaning in their existence by being good to their neighbors. They must be told that if they do these things, they will be rewarded. It is the reward of being a good person that they seek. They're not good for the sake of their own happiness, they are good for what they stand to gain at the end of their lives.
    It is true that religion is often "sold" by advertising that their god and beliefs offer preferred seating in a proposed afterlife. Buyer beware! Companies/religions/scam-artists often promise rewards and incentives to persuade their "mark" to buy what they are selling. The mantra by Ronald Reagan would apply: "trust but verify".

    Since no afterlives or any other such promises by religions can be verified as true, I see no reason to accept their claims and thus no reason to "buy" what they are "selling".

    It would appear there are many gullible and/or credulous people out there who are willing to "buy" what a religion/company/scam-artist is "selling" without first verifying the truth of their claims.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  9. #149
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,787

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    No. I am saying that they can't find purpose in the reality they live so they must A) create the purpose for that life(Heaven, Paradise etc) and B) build their lives around that purpose (going to church, being good neighbors, giving to charity etc). The 'pathetic, stupid losers' thing is your own addition.
    And I will repeat it as that's what you've described. People who cannot handle reality, especially when they have to invent make-believe nonsense or buy into someone else's make-believe nonsense, are pathetic, stupid losers. If one cannot come up with a rational, intellectual purpose for their lives that doesn't involve bowing down to imaginary friends in the sky, or cannot be a decent human being without such beliefs, why shouldn't we see them that way?

    It's not that it gives them the lisence to make up as much nonsense as they want. People in this thread didn't make all that nonsense in the bible. They find meaning in it and build their lives around it.
    No, they just chose to believe that nonsense. I happen to hold people rationally accountable for their decisions. It doesn't matter what meaning they find, it matter what mind-poison they accept into their heads. Someone might find meaning in the writing of J.K. Rowling, that doesn't mean they are justified in believing in magic and Hogwarts.

    Religion is a control mechanism. People are pious because they believe that the more pious they are, the greater the benefit. With centuries, this mechanism has become a culture. Christianity, Islam and every other religion are cultures that are passed down from generation to generation. It's pretty interesting because religion forces the human being to behave if it wants to reap the benefits promised by some force they can't seem to prove.
    I'll agree that religion is a control mechanism, I just question whether it's a positive one. It's the ultimate bait and switch, demanding that you act a certain way for a reward that you only supposedly get after you're dead and can't come back and tell anyone if you were scammed. However, the same people who believe in the "good" that supposedly comes from religion also tend to follow the bad. Homophobia, racism, hatred, violence, etc. are all end-results that can come from religion. When you open your mind to things that you have no good, rational reason to believe, you also open your mind to all sorts of mind-poisons and other irrational things to come flooding in. The same people who embrace gods embrace superstitions at a much higher level. Rejecting critical thinking in one area of your life lessens the chance that you will use it overall. When emotional comfort becomes the standard for belief, then anything that brings emotional comfort, no matter how absurd it may be, becomes acceptable.

    That's what I object to.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  10. #150
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,787

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    So, essentially... you're a better person than people who are religious... because you don't need religion?

    Arrogant attitude.
    Funny, isn't that the kind of thing the religious say? We're better because we have God on our side?

    It isn't about being better, it's about being more rational and being dedicated to what is *ACTUALLY* real, instead of just what makes you feel good.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

Page 15 of 24 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •