View Poll Results: Do you believe Noah?

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  • Im Christian. I believe his age and the Ark

    9 10.84%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe the Ark. I believe his age

    1 1.20%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe his age but I believe the Ark.

    2 2.41%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe EITHER his age nor the Ark.

    10 12.05%
  • Not Christian but I believe both the age and the Ark

    2 2.41%
  • Not Christian and its total and utter rubbish!

    49 59.04%
  • Other / I dont Know

    10 12.05%
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Thread: Do You believe Noah?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    whether you are a "believer" or not, it is just plain ignorant to claim that a physical object such as the ark would have been impossible. given the description in the bible, it would have been very possible to build such a vessel. and if a massive metal monstrosity like an aircraft carrier can float, surely a boat made out of gopher wood could have floated.
    It wouldn't have been seaworthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    The American ship Pretoria was one of the largest wooden ships ever constructed. The Pretoria was a schooner-barge, and 103 meters (338 ft) long, 13.4 meters (44 ft) wide and 7 meters (23 ft) in depth.

    To strengthen its wooden frame and hull, the Pretoria included steel keelson plates, steel chords, steel arches, and also it was diagonally strapped with steel. It needed a donkey engine to run a pump to keep its interior dry. The Pretoria sunk in a storm in 1905.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Because of the extreme length of the Wyoming and its wood construction, it tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold (see hogging and sagging). The Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands. ... It was 329.5 feet (100.4 m) long and 50 ft 1 in (15.27 m) wide, with a draft of 30 ft 5 in (9.27 m) .
    The Ark would've been about 450 feet long 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. No one knows what "gopher wood" is.

  2. #112
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    The story is probably based on something which really happened, but obviously, it was embellished over time.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #113
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The story is probably based on something which really happened, but obviously, it was embellished over time.
    and still being embellished....people keep saying they have found the wreckage....
    Oracle of Utah
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  4. #114
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Holy ****, you guys are still discussing this?

    My take: It's possible.
    Education.

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  5. #115
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    If a god could create the universe then anything could be possible. He could have just had them all walk on top of the water. Or he could have created a flying aircraft for them to be carried on.

    But he does none of those things because he is limited by the imagination of the writers of that time.

  6. #116
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    people keep saying they have found the wreckage....
    The "wreckage" is the religion forum at DP.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3227&dateline=1247527  127

  7. #117
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    If a god could create the universe then anything could be possible. He could have just had them all walk on top of the water. Or he could have created a flying aircraft for them to be carried on.

    But he does none of those things because he is limited by the imagination of the writers of that time.
    God gives everyone there own mind though. Really though historically and scientifically there was a massive flood around that time, and while Noah of course wasn't that old who is to say he didn't look it? I am just a firm believer that science and the teaching of the bibles can coincide in several cases, and the story has been rewritten through the ages so many times who knows what it originally said?
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  8. #118
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite
    The dimensions given to the ark are 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. The cubit probably refers to the Royal Egyptian Cubit, the most standard unit of measurement at the time. This means the ark was 500 feet long, 85 feet wide, and 50 feet high.

    Now consider that it had to be assembled using NO metal nails or fasteners. Such technology was not available at the time as nails were not around until the early Roman Empire. One of the largest wooden ships ever built was the Pretoria, a barge used on the Great Lakes. It measured 338 ft long, 44 ft wide, and 23 ft in depth. That's roughly half the size of Noah's ark and the Pretoria was barely seaworthy. Even with iron bracers and clamps, the ship still required a pump to constantly pump out water that leaked into the ship. There is no way Noah could have built a ship to the size of the ark and had be even remotely sea-worthy, it would have sunk like a brick. There is a size limit when dealing with wooden vessels and the ark exceedes that by several orders of magnitude.

    Additionally, there was no realistic way for Noah to build the ark. He couldn't have used a drydock configuration, that technology wasn't available. There were no cranes available to lift him the 50 feet off the ground and he apparently didn't have much help holding the timber in place. On top of all that, the man was a wine-maker, not a shipbuilder. You cant just wake up one day and say "I think I'll build a ship!" and have it work first time. Shipwrights are EXTREMELY experienced people who spend decades learning what they do.
    While you make some really good points, I wanted to expand on it if I may, just to show the complete insanity anyone who believes in these stories must suffer from.

    The era from which the ark supposedly comes is an erra where the extend of marine transport is hollowed-out logs and reed rafts. There simply was no naval knowledge for Noah to build upon. In order to even contemplate building the ark, Noah and his sons would have to have extensive knowledge of physics, calculus, structural mechanics and analysis. Many of these disciplines were entirely unkown, even in their most rudimentary form, until thousands of years after Noah supposedly lived. Noah would have had to have understood and been able to anticipate the complex effects of roll, pitch, yaw and slamming in rough seas, as well as solving differential equations for bending movement, torque and shear stress. Where did he get this knowledge? He couldn't possibly have had it. Beyond the design elements, how did Noah and his sons learn how to fell a tree and dry it properly to avoid rot and splitting, especially when the largest beams may take years or even decades to properly cure? Where did he get the knowledge and equipment from among the local reed-raft builders to properly steam a plank to bend it into proper position? Some of the beams involved would weigh many tons, how did Noah move them with just his small crew? A fully staffed shipyard in the 19th century would have been overwhelmed with such a task, how did Noah manage?

    The largest wooden ships in known history were the six-masted schooners, launched between 1900 and 1909. The largest was the U.S.S. Wyoming, which came in at 329 feet, was banded in iron and they leaked so badly that they were restricted to shallow, calm waters and only on short coastal hauls because their crews often worked to exhaustion with their constant bailing and pumping to keep the ship afloat. How could a ship that was more than 100 feet longer than the largest ship ever built, in an era where no metal banding was available, placed into the worst sea storm in history expect to survive?

    Anyone who buys into this is either painfully ignorant or entirely delusional. Or both.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    WTF is a bettle?
    you should change your username to spellinbee.

  10. #120
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    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Anyone who buys into this is either painfully ignorant or entirely delusional. Or both.
    When presented with an allegory intended to reveal something about live on earth, the reader has two options. the reader can recognize it as allegory, or the reader can misunderstand it as something else.

    now, for those that misunderstand it as something else, there are those that will accept it as literally true and then those that will dismiss it as false. but both must misunderstand it first, and therefore both must first suffer from the same literalist "delusion."
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3227&dateline=1247527  127

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