View Poll Results: Do you believe Noah?

Voters
83. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im Christian. I believe his age and the Ark

    9 10.84%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe the Ark. I believe his age

    1 1.20%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe his age but I believe the Ark.

    2 2.41%
  • Im Christian. I dont believe EITHER his age nor the Ark.

    10 12.05%
  • Not Christian but I believe both the age and the Ark

    2 2.41%
  • Not Christian and its total and utter rubbish!

    49 59.04%
  • Other / I dont Know

    10 12.05%
Page 10 of 24 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 237

Thread: Do You believe Noah?

  1. #91
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    You're STILL trying to use logic where it doesn't belong. Science and faith are two roads that never intersect... ever. I'm not claiming one is right, or wrong, or better or worse. They are simply different.
    The big difference is this...Science has its basis in fact/reason, and faith has its basis in imagination.

  2. #92
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    It's OK to be delusional. Without our delusions, many of us would suffer from the pangs of reality. IMO, as long as you keep religion out of politics, those kinds of delusions are a safe diversion. Sort of like believing wrestling is real....
    I'm reporting this post for taking an unnecessary shot at Redress.

  3. #93
    Guru
    Diogenes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    10-11-13 @ 06:52 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,980

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    But if you look at all the different mythos in Europe/West Asia, you find they all mention a flood, from the Greeks to the Hindis and the Mesopotamians, so there may have been a nig flood in the area at one time.
    Years ago, I had an ancient history prof who spent most of an hour on this subject. The oldest flood story is in the Sumerian story The Epic of Gilgamesh, which dates to about 2250 BC. Gilgamesh was king of Sumer, and had Inki as a best friend. Inki died. Gilgamesh got lonely, went outside the city walls, and dug down to Hades to look up his old friend. Inki did not like Hades - too cold and damp - so Gilgamesh decided he wanted to live forever. After much asking around, he heard of an immortal man who lived in a valley in the mountains of western Iran. Gilgamesh set out to find this man, named Utnapishtim (which, in the Sumerian language, means "the man who lives forever").

    Utnapishtim had been a Good Man, so when the gods became disgusted with humans and decided to flood the world and start over (ca. 2600 BC), one of the gods warned Utnapishtim and told him to build an ark to save himself and his family. After 40 days and nights floating on the water, the flood went down and Utnapishtim landed on the highest peak of the Zagros range in western Iran (I forget the name of the peak, but it's still there). The first thing the humans did was sacrifice to the gods. In those days the gods actually ate the sacrifices, so by now they were pretty hungry (ancient gods tend to be very shortsighted at times) and they all came trooping down for the feast. One of the gods eventually noticed Utnapishtim and asked "What's HE doing here? They were all supposed to be drowned!" A big discussion among the gods followed, and eventually they reached a compromise: for being a Good Man, Utnapishtim would be granted immortality; but so no one would ever find out what they had done, he had to live his life in the one little valley with the Tree Of Life.

    Utnapishtim gave Gilgamesh a sapling from the Tree and sent him away, never to return. Gilgamesh started home. Along the way, he set the sapling down so he could drink from a well. A snake popped out of the well, grabbed the sapling, and disappeared back down the well. And that, children, is the reason men are mortal while snakes live forever - you can find the old skins every spring after the snakes are reborn.

    Some four centuries later, the Babylonians adopted the flood story; they named their immortal Ziusudra ("the man who lives forever" in Babylonian) and they kept the same mountain in the Zagros range.

    The name Noah doesn't mean anything in Hebrew, so the thread of the flood story had a break in it until the 1920s when someone discovered a race of people called the Hurrians who had moved into the Middle East from the direction of Armenia a couple of centuries ahead of the Hebrews. They adopted the flood story, named their man Noah (again, "the man who lives forever") and changed the mountain to Ararat, the highest peak they knew of.

    The Hebrews apparently adopted the Hurrian story wholesale. Or at least that's what my history prof said, and he's the only person I've ever met who could read both Sumerian cuneiform and Egyptian hieroglyphics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Divide Noah's age by 12 and you get 75. Which would have been extremely old for his times. They had a different calendar and figured their ages by the phases of the moon.
    Methuselah, an ancestor of Noah, supposedly lived to the age of 969 years. According to the history prof cited above, the oldest known copy of the story was written in Aramaic (which he could also read) and used the word for "seasons" which is how they tracked their months. In an age when the life expectancy was less than 40, anyone who actually made it to 80 would indeed be noteworthy.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  4. #94
    Guru
    Diogenes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    10-11-13 @ 06:52 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,980

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    It's OK to be delusional. Without our delusions, many of us would suffer from the pangs of reality. IMO, as long as you keep religion out of politics, those kinds of delusions are a safe diversion. Sort of like believing wrestling is real....
    Agreed, but delusions are often functional. If not for motherly delusions about our beauty, wit and charm, most of us would be drowned at birth.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

  5. #95
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,687

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Agreed, but delusions are often functional. If not for motherly delusions about our beauty, wit and charm, most of us would be drowned at birth.
    Your mother, maybe...I suspect my mother tried it...
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  6. #96
    Technomancer
    Hoplite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    05-08-11 @ 03:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,779

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    whether you are a "believer" or not, it is just plain ignorant to claim that a physical object such as the ark would have been impossible. given the description in the bible, it would have been very possible to build such a vessel. and if a massive metal monstrosity like an aircraft carrier can float, surely a boat made out of gopher wood could have floated.
    No, it really isnt possible.

    The dimensions given to the ark are 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. The cubit probably refers to the Royal Egyptian Cubit, the most standard unit of measurement at the time. This means the ark was 500 feet long, 85 feet wide, and 50 feet high.

    Now consider that it had to be assembled using NO metal nails or fasteners. Such technology was not available at the time as nails were not around until the early Roman Empire. One of the largest wooden ships ever built was the Pretoria, a barge used on the Great Lakes. It measured 338 ft long, 44 ft wide, and 23 ft in depth. That's roughly half the size of Noah's ark and the Pretoria was barely seaworthy. Even with iron bracers and clamps, the ship still required a pump to constantly pump out water that leaked into the ship. There is no way Noah could have built a ship to the size of the ark and had be even remotely sea-worthy, it would have sunk like a brick. There is a size limit when dealing with wooden vessels and the ark exceedes that by several orders of magnitude.

    Additionally, there was no realistic way for Noah to build the ark. He couldn't have used a drydock configuration, that technology wasn't available. There were no cranes available to lift him the 50 feet off the ground and he apparently didn't have much help holding the timber in place. On top of all that, the man was a wine-maker, not a shipbuilder. You cant just wake up one day and say "I think I'll build a ship!" and have it work first time. Shipwrights are EXTREMELY experienced people who spend decades learning what they do.


    As far as the flood itself, the United Nations Environment Programme estimates there are 1.4 billion cubic kilometres (330 million mi3) of water available on Earth. Including underground sources and glaciers.

    The highest point on the surface of the Earth is Mount Everest in Nepal. 8,848 meters tall (29,028 feet)

    The mean radius of the Earth (Core to sea level) is 6,372,797 meters. With Everest added to that, it comes out to 6,381,645 meters.

    The total mass of the hydrosphere of the oceans is about 1.4 × 1021 kilograms, which is about 0.023% of the Earth's total mass.

    The volume of the earth in-between the highest and lowest points on earth assuming that the ENTIRE surface is flooded WITH landmasses accounted for is 5x105

    Available- 1.4 billion cubic kilometers
    Needed (To cover the ENTIRE surface)- 5 quadrillion cubic kilometers
    Missing- 4.9999986 quadrillion cubic kilometers.

    We would need probably nine or ten orders of magnitude more water than we actually have available. Even if there were a couple billion cubic kilometers hiding under the surface of the Earth, we wouldn't even BEGIN to have enough. To have that much water on Earth would disrupt the gravity of the Earth and SERIOUSLY mess with the tripple point of water which would result in the death of all life as we know it.

    As you see, it it mathematically IMPOSSIBLE for the ENTIRE surface of the Earth to be covered with water.


    The story, the way it's written, cannot possibly be true.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

  7. #97
    User
    Chappy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    04-07-15 @ 01:50 AM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    2,443
    Blog Entries
    26

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    I think the people who wrote the Bible had a better grasp of the meaning behind the Noah story than those people today who treat the Bible as the literal truth. I don't think that part of the Bible was ever intended to be treated as the literal truth. For me the story is about a people and their unique relationship with their god in the context of vague, cultural events (e.g., "the flood").
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  8. #98
    Too big to fail
    niftydrifty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    03-03-16 @ 03:20 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,725

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Allegory is instructive to anyone that recognizes that it is allegory.






    10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
    Last edited by niftydrifty; 12-07-10 at 04:50 PM.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3227&dateline=1247527  127

  9. #99
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Last Seen
    01-10-12 @ 12:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    906

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    This is offensive and uncalled for.

  10. #100
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: Do You believe Noah?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post

    Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua
    No, and if you do believe it then you're either an idiot or delusional.
    This is offensive and uncalled for.

    well, he is gay, hates religion because it is against his lifestyle. can't really blame him
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

Page 10 of 24 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •