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Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

Do you believe Pelosi about Foodstamps and Unemployment?


  • Total voters
    23
I can see how it would help the economy though. Even though people on welfare and food stamps receive money from the government, that money still gets spent into the economy by using that money to purchase needs. The money comes from the government, goes to a recipient, and then goes to businesses because the recipient makes purchases they wouldn't be able to make otherwise.

the problem being that that money was taken from the economy in the first place. so it's like me taking $1,000 from your savings account, taking a 25% cut (to represent running that money through the bureacracy), depositing the rest into your checkings account; and claiming that i've made you $750 richer.
 
1. you don't actually help the economy by artificially pumping up demand. that's like saying you're getting into better shape by taking speed. yes, in the next extremely short burst of time you might be stronger; (though due to crowding out effect i tend to doubt even that part of the model carries over) but you are only continuing to degrade the body.

2. that is still the argument. that 'demand' that they claim for food stamps is food. that they claim for unemployment is things like heating, housing, necessities.

3. it still represents less than optimal allocation of capital, it's like trying to solve an addiction through hair-of-the-dog.

It is a temporary solution to help the economy/people back on their feet.
 
An interesting point I would like to make is that government spending helped us get out of the Great Depression when America spent money on WWII. Spending money on the war boosted the economy because that money went into businesses and put people to work. I do think welfare and food stamps helps the economy and places more money into the hands of businesses.
 
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Capital comes from savings, you do not need the wealthy to access capital. A healthy middle class that does save a portion of their income can provide as much if not more capital then the wealthy, They can also have a far higher demand for the goods and services that thier capital could allow for the production off. The last 30 years of supply side economics has actually pushed demand to too high a level at all levels (private, corportate and government). Supply side economics has pushed demand foward ( hence low or negative savings rates) at the expense of savings for the middle class. As a result wealth has been transfered from the middle class to the upper class. Now as the middle class can not demand as much (no money) the need for production is lower, leading to economic slowdowns.

:lamo especially in the context of this debate, that claim is friggin hilarious.


:D yeah, and Hayek supported the labor theory of value :joke:
 
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the problem being that that money was taken from the economy in the first place. so it's like me taking $1,000 from your savings account, taking a 25% cut (to represent running that money through the bureacracy), depositing the rest into your checkings account; and claiming that i've made you $750 richer.

China's economy. It comes from China's economy.
 
No one is surprised that you don't know that we have a record of people on food stamps.

If this were true then the welfare office in my town would not have been closed. People now have to travel to the next decent sized town 30 miles away in order to get help from welfare. And before you ask they specifically said that they were closing down the welfare office because there was not enough people in this town recieving welfare to justify keeping it open. Mind you the population in this town is about 5.5k, just inside the town limits. That does not count all the people that live outside of the town in the whole county (which is roughly another 5k worth of people). My folks have to travel 110 miles just to go talk to the welfare office about thier SSI.
 
People who spend welfare money increases demand, and it has nothing to do with supply.

If you increase demand but do nothing about production then all you'll do is increase prices.
 
that is correct; they borrowed the money. now. where did they get the money that they borrowed.

Deficit spending is spending money you don't have. So no one.

Now the economic crisis we are in now is because of lack of demand. Increasing taxes would decrease demand, but also people with no income decreases demand. Now we can wait for the market to turn itself around, and it may not. Or the government can help things along, and one of those things is giving people with no income, income so they can increase demand. We may spend more then we have, but it will help. It doesn't help the deficit, but reducing the deficit is something best done in stable economic times.
 
Deficit spending is spending money you don't have. So no one.

Now the economic crisis we are in now is because of lack of demand. Increasing taxes would decrease demand, but also people with no income decreases demand. Now we can wait for the market to turn itself around, and it may not. Or the government can help things along, and one of those things is giving people with no income, income so they can increase demand. We may spend more then we have, but it will help. It doesn't help the deficit, but reducing the deficit is something best done in stable economic times.

Why does demand just randomly fall?
 
China's economy. It comes from China's economy.

well, properly speaking, some of it; but not as much as people tend to think. but yes, holders of dollars looking to invest them are where the government get's it's money that it puts into unemployment benefits from.


so.... the government takes money from investors... and then transports them through the Giant Chain Of Government up and around and then back down and out as unemployment benefits (with ever level and side of the government getting it's cut).... it hasn't increased demand. all you've done is taken it from productive uses and put to unproductive ones.
 
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Production isn't lacking though.

By what objective measure are you basing that? Remember that not all production is equal before you try to answer. :)
 
well, properly speaking, some of it; but not as much as people tend to think. but yes, holders of dollars looking to invest them are where the government get's it's money that it puts into unemployment benefits from.


so.... the government takes money from investors... and then transports them through the Giant Chain Of Government up and around and then back down and out as unemployment benefits (with ever level and side of the government getting it's cut).... it hasn't increased demand.

And even if it did who cares? Increasing demand with no effect on production will only get you higher prices. We want increased production of the things that people want.
 

Good for Reuters. Now if that is true then explain to me why our welfare office was closed down due to not having enough people using it to justify keeping it open.

BTW, from your link...

One in 10 Americans were participating in the food stamp program as of September, said Dottie Rosenbaum, analyst with Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a think tank.

That's approaching the all-time high of 10.5 percent of the population that used the program in 1994, and is similar to levels seen in the early 1980s, she said.

If 1 in 10 is approaching the all time high of 10.5 and is similar to levels in the early 80's how is it that a claim of record people on foodstamps? In order for there to be a record then you would have to beat the previous record.
 
Deficit spending is spending money you don't have. So no one.

really. the government does not issue bonds in order to get money that it uses to deficit spend? we have managed to deficit spend without going into debt? now that is a neat trick.

Now the economic crisis we are in now is because of lack of demand.

no, the economic crises we are in now is because the government encouraged massive malinvestment and then soaked up all of the capital that would have led to recovery into a series of pork experiments. :) but we are working our way there step by step, and i don't want to skip too far ahead. suffice to say that lack of demand is the symptom, not the disease.

Increasing taxes would decrease demand

how? objectively speaking increasing marginal tax rates simply provides a powerful incentive for people to structure their compensation in a manner designed to avoid taxation rather than putting it to productive use. you don't get more revenue, and you decrease productivity. for example, millionaire joe has made 275K this year, and is going to go half-and-half with millionaire steve in investing in that new restaraunt that lead chef and manager karen has convinced them will do well. then corporate tax rates shoot up, so in order to protect their income from taxation, millionaires' steve and joe put their income into tax-free municipal bonds. the restaraunt is never built, waiters, cooks, and busboys are never hired, and Karen stays a frustrated lead chef at Applebees.
 
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Good for Reuters. Now if that is true then explain to me why our welfare office was closed down due to not having enough people using it to justify keeping it open.

Anecdotal evidence! You can find an opposing example of anything, but one example isn't statistically meaningful.

If 1 in 10 is approaching the all time high of 10.5 and is similar to levels in the early 80's how is it that a claim of record people on foodstamps? In order for there to be a record then you would have to beat the previous record.

Record PEOPLE, not record proportions.
 
Good for Reuters. Now if that is true then explain to me why our welfare office was closed down due to not having enough people using it to justify keeping it open.

explain to you how a piece of antecdotal evidence may not be a perfect match for the story nationwide?


my pay went up quite a bit this year; obviously the economy is booming!!!
 
Why does demand just randomly fall?

It doesn't just randomly fall, aggregate demand can rise or fall based on these factors
Exchange Rates
Distribution of Income
Consumer expectations
Imports/Exports
Government fiscal policy.
 
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