View Poll Results: Do you believe Pelosi about Foodstamps and Unemployment?

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  • Pelosi is 100% correct

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi is playing politics

    5 13.89%
  • Pelosi is 100% incorrect

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi should go play in a mine field

    13 36.11%
  • Rutabaga

    2 5.56%
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Thread: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

  1. #181
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But if they are irrational the wishing well scenario must be true. There is no way around that unless you say that actors are rational.
    So because they aren't irrational in the particular case of not wasting money on wishing wells, it must mean that they're ALWAYS rational from the perspective of economics? That doesn't make any sense.

    People are more willing to behave irrationally and throw money away when, among other reasons, A) they can justify to themselves that this time is different, and B) they don't really understand the investment. That makes, say, a credit-default swap bubble more likely than a wishing well bubble.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-06-10 at 01:55 PM.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Then you have to ask yourself, is she insane, or does she like the quality so much that she is willing to risk the abuse? I'm not saying it's healthy or good, I'm just saying that it can potentially be rational (but I can't make a judgment of her mental state).
    Good, this is where I was trying to lead you, to the juxtaposition between emotionality and rationality because often they interact when we make decisions. This goes back to Hallam's point. Humans are emotional creates that make decisions for emotional reasons. Often we inject rationality into something to determine the best way to satisfy our emotions, but thats it. Doing something stupid over and over means we are letting our hearts guide us and not our heads and it something every person does from time to time.

  3. #183
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So because they aren't irrational in the particular case of not wasting money on wishing wells, it must mean that they're ALWAYS rational from the perspective of economics? That doesn't make any sense.
    What doesn't make sense is irrational in this case but rational in another. We're either irrational or rational, we can't be both.

    People are more willing to behave irrationally and throw money away when, among other reasons, A) they can justify to themselves that this time is different, and B) they don't really understand the investment. That makes, say, a credit-default swap bubble more likely than a wishing well bubble.
    Because it is different. It's not behaving irrationally. This was something new. Notice how people aren't going out and buying those things today?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  4. #184
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Good, this is where I was trying to lead you, to the juxtaposition between emotionality and rationality because often they interact when we make decisions. This goes back to Hallam's point. Humans are emotional creates that make decisions for emotional reasons. Often we inject rationality into something to determine the best way to satisfy our emotions, but thats it. Doing something stupid over and over means we are letting our hearts guide us and not our heads and it something every person does from time to time.
    That has nothing to do with rationality. She's still acting in her own self-interest, and it's rational. What would be irrational is being dissatisfied with the one guy and continually going back to that guy.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #185
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That has nothing to do with rationality. She's still acting in her own self-interest, and it's rational. What would be irrational is being dissatisfied with the one guy and continually going back to that guy.
    You have a weird definition of rational

    I just confirmed it. I looked it up in the dictionary, and rationality appears to be the use of reason to make a decision. (this is the definition I was using in my arguments at least). Reason and emotion are two different things ...
    Last edited by tacomancer; 12-06-10 at 02:05 PM.

  6. #186
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What doesn't make sense is irrational in this case but rational in another. We're either irrational or rational, we can't be both.
    Huh? Of course we can be. Almost everyone is irrational some of the time and rational some of the time, and the topics where people are likely to be more/less rational are pretty consistent. People are pretty rational when it comes to buying a high-quality product or a low-quality product for the same price; people are much less rational when it comes to evaluating risk versus reward.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez
    Because it is different. It's not behaving irrationally. This was something new. Notice how people aren't going out and buying those things today?
    They aren't buying them today because they just crashed and now even the most novice investor knows of the risks that they carry, not because people suddenly became more rational. People will just move on to the next bubble, telling themselves that this time will be different.
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  7. #187
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It would increase consumption, that's simple to see. Goods will be relatively worth more because of inflation after a while. What about investment? Investment spending means that you'll have a lot of other expenses down the line (increased production has to be maintained). So if there is inflation and you have a certain sum of money right now for investment, what will happen to those future costs? You know they're going to go up as inflation continues. In that sense, does inflatioes it hurt total investment? Remember that the demand you expect won't actually be there in the end because inflation-fueled demand will necessarily crash eventually.
    I was simply pointing out the flaw in your argument that more inflation necessarily means less investment. You are clearly wrong in the short term. The savings rate is a percentage of income saved. The amount of income can clearly go up if inflation induces more spending. Inflation clearly will cause more short term spending, as people shift their holdings of money into assets.


    Then your flow diagram is flawed. You're only looking at the short run. Eventually the inflation will be realized and people will see that they have less money saved than they actually believed. Hence a push to refill the coffers, in a sense.
    Money is neutral in the long run. It is no necessarily super-neutral. Inflation can have a negative effect on growth. Though the main reason for such a phenomenon has little to do with the "realization" of inflation. In the long run prices and interest rates have been allowed to fully adjust (this is literally the definition of long run in economics). Instead it is things that are not allowed to adjust, such as the tax code (bracket creep) that are more likely responsible.



    There is no fixed number of jobs! Right now, people have to lower their expectations because their labor is not as valuable as they think it is. Furthermore, if it was that valuable, then there would be competition to drive those wages up. If that hasn't happened, then the problem isn't sticky wages, but rather unreasonable expectations of the unemployed (which is fueled by subsidizing unemployment).
    This is extremely simple to understand. If the demand for labor falls the price of labor will fall. This results in a lower quantity of labor. If something keeps the price from falling, then there will be a surplus of labor.

  8. #188
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You have a weird definition of rational

    I just confirmed it. I looked it up in the dictionary, and rationality appears to be the use of reason to make a decision. (this is the definition I was using in my arguments at least). Reason and emotion are two different things ...
    The use of reason and emotion are not mutually exclusive.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #189
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that's not what she's arguing. How do you guys get so much wrong?
    That very latest study shows that liberals are more likely to graduate from college and that conservatives are most likely to not even graduate from grade school.....lol....
    About 1000 hours of PBS and a high school education, free of Limbaugh and Beck would fix this problem.

  10. #190
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    That very latest study shows that liberals are more likely to graduate from college and that conservatives are most likely to not even graduate from grade school.....lol....
    About 1000 hours of PBS and a high school education, free of Limbaugh and Beck would fix this problem.
    that is moronic. HS dropouts have supported the dems in every national election over the last several times

    the people most likely to vote for the dems are the groups most likely to drop out of highschool

    if the liberals are so smart why do so many of them need government help to survive



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