View Poll Results: Do you believe Pelosi about Foodstamps and Unemployment?

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  • Pelosi is 100% correct

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi is playing politics

    5 13.89%
  • Pelosi is 100% incorrect

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi should go play in a mine field

    13 36.11%
  • Rutabaga

    2 5.56%
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Thread: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

  1. #171
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    How should we have known? Seems like you just assume the solution here.
    Anyone looking at the data would have been able to tell that a crash was bound to happen. Investors should have known. You can say that they all tried to short the market, but why did so many regular people invest in such an obvious stinker?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #172
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No they ARE irrational, just not in that particular way. The reason they throw money away on SOME unreasonable expectations and not others could have many different causes. In this specific case, it's a lot easier to justify to one's self that "this time is different" when it comes to a fancy financial derivative than it is when it comes to a superstition.

    The idea that people are fundamentally rational actors (and that the markets, therefore, are rational) is one of the biggest misconceptions of standard economics.
    But if they are irrational the wishing well scenario must be true. There is no way around that unless you say that actors are rational.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #173
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Lets think about this logically though. If there is more inflation, the public will shift its holdings out of money and more into other assets. This will achieve the lower savings rate you suggest, but what it will also do is increase investment spending (and consumption for that matter).
    It would increase consumption, that's simple to see. Goods will be relatively worth more because of inflation after a while. What about investment? Investment spending means that you'll have a lot of other expenses down the line (increased production has to be maintained). So if there is inflation and you have a certain sum of money right now for investment, what will happen to those future costs? You know they're going to go up as inflation continues. In that sense, does inflation really help, or does it hurt total investment? Remember that the demand you expect won't actually be there in the end because inflation-fueled demand will necessarily crash eventually.

    From a basic flow diagram, or common sense, we know if there is more spending peoples incomes will rise. Investment is not strictly a function of the saving rate, but the saving rate times income.
    Then your flow diagram is flawed. You're only looking at the short run. Eventually the inflation will be realized and people will see that they have less money saved than they actually believed. Hence a push to refill the coffers, in a sense.

    You're not pushing for a bubble economy, are you?

    The standard neoclassical answer would be that real wages are sticky, ie they will not fall. You could attribute this to people's demands being too high or a number of coordination failures. Regardless, people must now demand lower wages because there are currently less jobs.
    There is no fixed number of jobs! Right now, people have to lower their expectations because their labor is not as valuable as they think it is. Furthermore, if it was that valuable, then there would be competition to drive those wages up. If that hasn't happened, then the problem isn't sticky wages, but rather unreasonable expectations of the unemployed (which is fueled by subsidizing unemployment).

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #174
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Psychology clearly demonstrates that heuristics, schema, stereotypes and emotion far exceed rationality for primary motivations on decision making. It makes sense. Thinking takes time and effort. We are lazy species. And schema, heuristics, and stereotypes, short cut thinking and make decision making less taxing and easier.
    If you make a decision over and over again and keep failing, eventually you're going to stop making that decision. If you keep making that decision and expect a different outcome, that would classify you as insane. Since we don't do that (except for a select few), we are rational.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #175
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    If you make a decision over and over again and keep failing, eventually you're going to stop making that decision. If you keep making that decision and expect a different outcome, that would classify you as insane. Since we don't do that (except for a select few), we are rational.
    Would you classify a lady who has a history of choosing abusive boyfriends as insane? (we all know someone like this) I certainly wouldn't even though she is not learning from her choices. This sort of behavior is typical with humans.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 12-06-10 at 12:35 PM.

  6. #176
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Would you classify a lady who has a history of choosing abusive boyfriends as insane? (we all know someone like this) I certainly wouldn't even though she is not learning from her choices. This sort of behavior is typical with humans.
    No, as she's choosing different guys.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #177
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No, as she's choosing different guys.
    But always for the same reasons ...

  8. #178
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    But always for the same reasons ...
    So all people of the "type" that she likes are abusive?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #179
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So all people of the "type" that she likes are abusive?
    Thinking about it, I think the answer is yes. Girl likes a guy who is a gang banger or has some other desirable badboy quality and it turns out the guy is a jerk. Girl breaks up with the guy, goes back to the guy, back and forth, eventually puts the guy behind him, only to choose the same "type" of person the next time around (assuming she doesn't have a baby with the first guy because it will make him "love" her).

    I am pretty sure we all know someone like this. Heck, I know one lady who is in her late 40s and still tries to act this way.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 12-06-10 at 01:20 PM.

  10. #180
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Thinking about it, I think the answer is yes. Girl likes a guy who is a gang banger or has some other desirable badboy quality and it turns out the guy is a jerk. Girl breaks up with the guy, goes back to the guy, back and forth, eventually puts the guy behind him, only to choose the same "type" of person the next time around (assuming she doesn't have a baby with the first guy because it will make him "love" her).

    I am pretty sure we all know someone like this. Heck, I know one lady who is in her late 40s and still tries to act this way.
    Then you have to ask yourself, is she insane, or does she like the quality so much that she is willing to risk the abuse? I'm not saying it's healthy or good, I'm just saying that it can potentially be rational (but I can't make a judgment of her mental state).

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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