View Poll Results: Do you believe Pelosi about Foodstamps and Unemployment?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • Pelosi is 100% correct

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi is playing politics

    5 13.89%
  • Pelosi is 100% incorrect

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi should go play in a mine field

    13 36.11%
  • Rutabaga

    2 5.56%
Page 17 of 21 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 206

Thread: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

  1. #161
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes, essentially. But instead of wishing wells, they call them "credit-default swaps" or "zero-down mortgages" or "dot-com stocks" or "treasury bonds" or whatnot.
    But they don't with wishing wells. If your theory was true then people would do it, but they don't. Your explanation is lacking.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #162
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    You see that is where interest rate differentials are important

    The government has to compete with corporate debt, typically the government can borrow at a low rate as it is generally considered safe. Any company can offer to pay a higher interest rate for its debt, and attract investors. Or it can actually sell shares, offering a potential higher rate of return then what government bonds typically do. In a normal economy the government can not suck up all the capital without paying high interest rates
    It can if it is funding its expenditures with inflation.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #163
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But they don't with wishing wells. If your theory was true then people would do it, but they don't. Your explanation is lacking.
    The missing link between yours and Kandahar's argument is learning. How do we learn? By observing the actions of others. This is a rational foundation for a bubble and is known as an Information Cascade.

  4. #164
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    The missing link between yours and Kandahar's argument is learning. How do we learn? By observing the actions of others. This is a rational foundation for a bubble and is known as an Information Cascade.
    Bubbles have happened before and we should have known that home prices were going to fall. So why the mass delusion?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #165
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But they don't with wishing wells. If your theory was true then people would do it, but they don't. Your explanation is lacking.
    Huh? Why?
    I'm afraid I don't understand what you're asking me to explain...
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  6. #166
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Huh? Why?
    I'm afraid I don't understand what you're asking me to explain...
    You said that people throw money away on unreasonable expectations. That's basically what you called derivatives and other financial products. Why don't they do this with wishing wells? Answer: people aren't irrational, something caused the strange action in this case.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #167
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Bubbles have happened before and we should have known that home prices were going to fall. So why the mass delusion?
    How should we have known? Seems like you just assume the solution here.

  8. #168
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You said that people throw money away on unreasonable expectations. That's basically what you called derivatives and other financial products. Why don't they do this with wishing wells? Answer: people aren't irrational, something caused the strange action in this case.
    No they ARE irrational, just not in that particular way. The reason they throw money away on SOME unreasonable expectations and not others could have many different causes. In this specific case, it's a lot easier to justify to one's self that "this time is different" when it comes to a fancy financial derivative than it is when it comes to a superstition.

    The idea that people are fundamentally rational actors (and that the markets, therefore, are rational) is one of the biggest misconceptions of standard economics.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-05-10 at 12:24 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  9. #169
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    That's inflationary! Remember that in the end we're really trading goods for goods. Putting more money into the economy devalues those bills. What does that mean for savings? It decreases. So what does that mean for investment? It also increases. There is no way around it, if you try to increase spending you're necessarily going to decrease investment (any growth in investment would be malinvestment).
    Lets think about this logically though. If there is more inflation, the public will shift its holdings out of money and more into other assets. This will achieve the lower savings rate you suggest, but what it will also do is increase investment spending (and consumption for that matter). From a basic flow diagram, or common sense, we know if there is more spending peoples incomes will rise. Investment is not strictly a function of the saving rate, but the saving rate times income.

    More formally this is known as the Mundell–Tobin effect


    And how do you prove that the unemployment is due to there not being enough jobs rather than people's demands being too high because of the benefits they are getting from being out of work?
    The standard neoclassical answer would be that real wages are sticky, ie they will not fall. You could attribute this to people's demands being too high or a number of coordination failures. Regardless, people must now demand lower wages because there are currently less jobs.

  10. #170
    Educator hallam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Philly
    Last Seen
    10-23-15 @ 09:44 AM
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    620

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So you throw money down a wishing well expecting it to grant your wish? This is a regular occurrence for you?
    Psychology clearly demonstrates that heuristics, schema, stereotypes and emotion far exceed rationality for primary motivations on decision making. It makes sense. Thinking takes time and effort. We are lazy species. And schema, heuristics, and stereotypes, short cut thinking and make decision making less taxing and easier.

Page 17 of 21 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •