View Poll Results: Do you believe Pelosi about Foodstamps and Unemployment?

Voters
36. You may not vote on this poll
  • Pelosi is 100% correct

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi is playing politics

    5 13.89%
  • Pelosi is 100% incorrect

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi should go play in a mine field

    13 36.11%
  • Rutabaga

    2 5.56%
Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 206

Thread: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

  1. #151
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah yeah yeah, but how are you going to increase that production before your competitors do? we've already taken the money out of the production side to give it to the demand side. if more people want my toys, but i can only make 1,000 toys a month, and the capital to expand my production has already gone into Bonds to be given to the people now using that same money to buy my toys.....


    ....then all that happens is i increase the price of my products; my production capability is shackled.
    Then one of your better-financed competitors will do it, and you'll go out of business. In either case, the aggregate effect is more production.

    In any case, the federal funds rate is close to its all-time low right now. It's unlikely that this is having a significant negative effect on your ability to produce more, as the interest rates that T-bonds are paying are not exactly attractive for lenders...
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-04-10 at 05:30 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #152
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There can be lots of reasons people behave irrationally. Dan Ariely covers some of the obvious examples in his book "Predictably Irrational." Some of the reasons when people are unwilling or unable to think rationally:

    - Wishful thinking. People WANT to believe that "this time is different," and so they come up with justifications for why obvious bubbles are actually sustainable.

    - The ownership bias. People generally overvalue what they already have. For example, when presented with the opportunity to sell something they own, people think about everything they're going to have to give up, instead of how much the underlying asset is actually worth.

    - The comparison bias. If given a choice between A) a high-end, expensive product and B) a low-end, cheap product, people will buy whichever suits their needs better. But if they ALSO have the choice of buying C) an equally high-end, but slightly MORE expensive product, they are vastly more likely to choose A over B.

    - Loss aversion. Potential losses loom much larger in the minds of most people than potential gains do. (This isn't necessarily irrational on a personal level, but from the perspective of financial markets it is.)

    These are just a few of the cognitive biases in human psychology that distort the economy. I strongly disagree with the notion that "people generally are smart." They are smart in certain areas and stupid in others. People make many predictable, irrational mistakes which can distort the market.
    So people continue to throw a lot of money into the wishing well expecting their wish to come true? If people acted irrationally, this would happen.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #153
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It's not sapping capital; the Fed just spat $600 billion into the economy. More demand CAUSES more production, which in turn causes more people to be hired.
    That's inflationary! Remember that in the end we're really trading goods for goods. Putting more money into the economy devalues those bills. What does that mean for savings? It decreases. So what does that mean for investment? It also increases. There is no way around it, if you try to increase spending you're necessarily going to decrease investment (any growth in investment would be malinvestment).

    But there is no epidemic of people being unwilling to work. There are vastly more unemployed people than there are jobs available, which is why unemployment is so high right now. So increasing people's desire to work doesn't actually do anything, if the jobs simply aren't there. Now if we had a SYSTEMIC unemployment rate approaching 9%, that would be a different matter. But it's only been in the last couple years since the recession that that's been a problem, which indicates to me that it's temporary.
    And how do you prove that the unemployment is due to there not being enough jobs rather than people's demands being too high because of the benefits they are getting from being out of work?

    Many businesses are currently awash with capital but are not investing it.
    You think that the Fed pumping money into the economy has anything to do with that? The value of the dollar is going to fluctuate wildly. How are they then to predict how much value they actually have saved?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #154
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then one of your better-financed competitors will do it, and you'll go out of business. In either case, the aggregate effect is more production.

    In any case, the federal funds rate is close to its all-time low right now. It's unlikely that this is having a significant negative effect on your ability to produce more, as the interest rates that T-bonds are paying are not exactly attractive for lenders...
    You're looking at money and not at real value. If you give people more "value" to spend then they have less "value" to invest. There is no way around that.

    Demand does not create its own production.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #155
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So people continue to throw a lot of money into the wishing well expecting their wish to come true? If people acted irrationally, this would happen.
    Yes, essentially. But instead of wishing wells, they call them "credit-default swaps" or "zero-down mortgages" or "dot-com stocks" or "treasury bonds" or whatnot.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  6. #156
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,574

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    It is a temporary solution to help the economy/people back on their feet.
    99 weeks is a bit more than temporary



  7. #157
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,076

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Then one of your better-financed competitors will do it, and you'll go out of business. In either case, the aggregate effect is more production.
    aggregate across the economy none of my competitors have the capital to do so. it's all been sucked up by the governments' need to borrow apocalyptic amounts of money in order to fund important and stimulating things like studies on robot bees.

  8. #158
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:29 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,431

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    aggregate across the economy none of my competitors have the capital to do so. it's all been sucked up by the governments' need to borrow apocalyptic amounts of money in order to fund important and stimulating things like studies on robot bees.
    You see that is where interest rate differentials are important

    The government has to compete with corporate debt, typically the government can borrow at a low rate as it is generally considered safe. Any company can offer to pay a higher interest rate for its debt, and attract investors. Or it can actually sell shares, offering a potential higher rate of return then what government bonds typically do. In a normal economy the government can not suck up all the capital without paying high interest rates
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  9. #159
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,076

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    1. IPO's are doing horribly this year.
    2. if there is one thing everyone is rightfully leary of right now, it's taking on higher costing debt.

    in a normal economy perhaps the governmtn can avoid sucking up all the capital

    but our government seems to have spent the last couple of years in a mad experiment to find out just how far it can push Moody's.

  10. #160
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:29 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,431

    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. IPO's are doing horribly this year.
    2. if there is one thing everyone is rightfully leary of right now, it's taking on higher costing debt.

    in a normal economy perhaps the governmtn can avoid sucking up all the capital

    but our government seems to have spent the last couple of years in a mad experiment to find out just how far it can push Moody's.
    The government is also creating money out of thin air.

    The banks have plenty of money avaliable (from the fed) that they could loan out if they did not have to worry about future defaults from home owners, CDS`s, and many other current potential sources of loss`s

    IPO`s are doing poorly not because of government borrowing, but because of low expectations for the near economic future of the US ie extreme risk for the amount of risk. Investors while wanting to make money, dont want to lose much of it either
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •