View Poll Results: Do you believe Pelosi about Foodstamps and Unemployment?

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  • Pelosi is 100% correct

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi is playing politics

    5 13.89%
  • Pelosi is 100% incorrect

    8 22.22%
  • Pelosi should go play in a mine field

    13 36.11%
  • Rutabaga

    2 5.56%
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Thread: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

  1. #131
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and so the solution is to increase that debt? your way of "letting us down easily" is to make the problem worse.

    and i would seriously question whether it even minimizes the pain. as i've been trying to work through with Your Star; the models that claim it does inevitably depend upon the notion that the Government just magically created that wealth rather than getting it from somewhere.
    It certainly can make the problem worse, or it can minimize the pain. Not every situation is the same, nor should the same solution be applied. Right now, it is not of much use as all sectors of the economy is deeply in debt. During periods of economic growth the government should seek to run a surplus, pay down debt etc. So that during economic slowdowns, it has the ability to either fund through savings a moderate stimulus or not become excessively indebted to so so.

    Right now as the government is deeply in debt even before the crisis, it does not have that flexibility. So instead of providing stimulus during the 2000's as the government did, it should have cut spending and increased taxes to pay down debt, giving it the potential to moderate this downturn
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  2. #132
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    increasing tax rates in a recession merely makes recovery for the prvate sector more difficult. it's also highly questionable to what extent higher tax rates would bring in higher revenues.



    in fact, if anything, the opposite seems to be true, though not to a particularly large degree:



    the wiser approach would have simply been to drastically cut spending past the point of deficit spending or tax increases. get government spending below that 18% of GDP so that we can pay down debt, and keep tax rates low so that the raw amount represented by 18% of GDP grows more rapidly.

  3. #133
    Educator hallam's Avatar
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Unemployment benefits/food-stamps immediately create more demand, more demand requires more workers. It's as they say "Not rocket science.'"
    It is also not good math as unemployment benefits and food stamps do not create more demand. The demand is there already. To think that people become hungry when the get food stamps is commendable but silly. The demand does not create more workers as the service industry is not really expanding and still meets the demands now.

  4. #134
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I have absolutely no problem with unemployment or food stamps. They're a necessary safety net.
    What's wrong with private charity? We didn't have a huge mass of people starving in the streets in the 1800s.

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  5. #135
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    People sometimes get caught up in the hype. The tech bubble was a bunch of hype on how some internet stocks were doubling or tripling in peoples investments in a very short period of time. People like that idea, they become obsessed with doing what their neighbor Joe did when he bought into Scamsareus.com and tripled his invesment in 5 months. In this obsession they stop performing rational analysis of the companies and state "it is different this time". The media often reinforces this obbession by bringing on cheerleaders saying it is different this time. This obbession fuels the growth in the stock market causing this believe that it is different this time to appear to be correct, causing even some rational people who know differently to join in as a means to gain quick profits. Then some stocks start to fail. The obbsession starts to fade, the companies start to go broke, and the whole system comes crashing down. Untill rationallity comes back into the market. In the ,time massive amounts of capital has been poorly allocated,

    It is a pattern that repeats itself over time in many different countries in many different markets. A small scale one would be Beanie Babies.
    But why. Why don't people learn? Like I said, the irrational man explanation really is lacking. People generally are smart, so why do they get fooled? What causes people to get fooled?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #136
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    It is also not good math as unemployment benefits and food stamps do not create more demand. The demand is there already. To think that people become hungry when the get food stamps is commendable but silly. The demand does not create more workers as the service industry is not really expanding and still meets the demands now.
    Thank you. Finally someone who understands that inflating demand is worthless since it does nothing to answer the production side of the economy.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #137
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But why. Why don't people learn? Like I said, the irrational man explanation really is lacking. People generally are smart, so why do they get fooled? What causes people to get fooled?
    If you can come up with a better theory as to why people can behave irrationally at times while normally behaving rationally by all means.

    Just remember that people do have emotions which can and do cloud ones judgement on many issues, not everything we do as human beings is based on cold rational thought
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  8. #138
    Educator hallam's Avatar
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    If you can come up with a better theory as to why people can behave irrationally at times while normally behaving rationally by all means.

    Just remember that people do have emotions which can and do cloud ones judgement on many issues, not everything we do as human beings is based on cold rational thought

    I would have to disagree here. Almost all human behavior is based on emotion and assumptions. Rationality is the exception not the rule that gets clouded.

  9. #139
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post



    On the House floor Pelosi then makes the claim that for every $1 spent on Unemployment, $2 goes back into the economy.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...ates_jobs.html

    So what Pelosi would have us believe is that the more Food Stamps and the more Unemployment, the better off our economy will be. The question is, do you believe that?
    Wow, what a straw man. She was saying more unemployment INSURANCE makes the economy better off, not more UNEMPLOYMENT.

    To answer the question, yes, I agree with her...at least about unemployment insurance. Extending it should help the economy because it increases the purchasing power of those who would otherwise be unable to buy much of anything. This stimulates the economy. (And we won't even mention the fact that it makes the unemployed themselves better off, since I know most folks don't care about that.)

    That doesn't mean that unemployment benefits need to be extended and expanded for all time, regardless of the state of the economy. I'm talking about a temporary extension, right now, in the midst of a period of extremely high unemployment. When unemployment comes back down, we can go back to the way things were...but with unemployment over 9%, it's difficult to seriously make the argument that more unemployment benefits will discourage people from working, when there are so many people who want to work but can't find a job.

    As for food stamps...I really don't know. I haven't studied the issue enough to know how expanding them would affect the economy, but I would guess that at least a temporary expansion would be a net positive for the economy as well, for basically the same reasons as unemployment insurance would.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-04-10 at 03:30 PM.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Your view: Food Stamps and Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    If you can come up with a better theory as to why people can behave irrationally at times while normally behaving rationally by all means.
    i don't see how they were acting that irrationally; they were responding to price signals, most especially the price of credit.

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