View Poll Results: What should be done about unemployment benefits?

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • Extend them through deficit spending

    14 21.54%
  • Extend them, but pay for them with unpaid stimulus/tarp funds

    19 29.23%
  • Don't extend them, it is unregulated welfare

    22 33.85%
  • Other, Explain:

    8 12.31%
  • Don't you touch my unemployment benefits!!

    2 3.08%
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Thread: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

  1. #151
    Steve
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And doing nothing the recession probably would have been over now, at least by looking at avereage lengths of recessions before intervention became standard policy.
    Again, depression if we did nothing. Depression. Would the depression be over now?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    There is no such thing as a lack of jobs. People's demands for what they see as reasonable expectations are too high and that is fueled by subsidizing non-production.
    A cruise company advertised a job fair near the area where I live. I believe they had 100 jobs to fill. 1,000 people showed up to apply, many of whom were overqualified and had nothing other than reasonable expectations. This is one example of a lack of jobs. There is definitely such a thing. Your statement is ridiculous.

    I see you are a libertarian. Nevermind, I have been wasting my time. Real life is not a thing most Libertarians are aware of.
    Do not write in this space!

  2. #152
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Again, depression if we did nothing. Depression. Would the depression be over now?
    Looking at the history of when we did nothing, the answer is a vehement yes!

    A cruise company advertised a job fair near the area where I live. I believe they had 100 jobs to fill. 1,000 people showed up to apply, many of whom were overqualified and had nothing other than reasonable expectations. This is one example of a lack of jobs. There is definitely such a thing. Your statement is ridiculous.
    It's not a lack of jobs, that's an example of a job in very high demand. How many people are applying for janitor jobs that pay minimum wage? How about rat cage cleaners at minimum wage? Not many people going for those jobs, huh?

    The problem is that people have too high demands for unemployment. Those demands might be realized with more investment, but that won't happen in the current climate induced by an overactive government.

    I see you are a libertarian. Nevermind, I have been wasting my time. Real life is not a thing most Libertarians are aware of.
    Classy.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #153
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Looking at the history of when we did nothing, the answer is a vehement yes!



    It's not a lack of jobs, that's an example of a job in very high demand. How many people are applying for janitor jobs that pay minimum wage? How about rat cage cleaners at minimum wage? Not many people going for those jobs, huh?

    The problem is that people have too high demands for unemployment. Those demands might be realized with more investment, but that won't happen in the current climate induced by an overactive government.



    Classy.
    During the Bush admin, Walmart openings had 20-30 people apply for each position opening. Walmart is not exactly a highly desired job by most people. Low pay, low benifits.

    As for peoples wage expectations being the cause of unemployement, to a degree sure. If Americans were willing to work (or able) for $2 /hr for 12 hour a day then unemployment could go down provided that social assistance also went down to levels below the wages potentially earned.

    Given the costs of living in the US, it would be difficult
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  4. #154
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    During the Bush admin, Walmart openings had 20-30 people apply for each position opening. Walmart is not exactly a highly desired job by most people. Low pay, low benifits.
    And it's an easy job.

    As for peoples wage expectations being the cause of unemployement, to a degree sure. If Americans were willing to work (or able) for $2 /hr for 12 hour a day then unemployment could go down provided that social assistance also went down to levels below the wages potentially earned.

    Given the costs of living in the US, it would be difficult
    The cost of living is subjective. As for a bare minimum, let's just look at the federal poverty (which is above the bare minimum, by the way).

    For 1 person, it's $10,830 (Washington, D.C.). Let's say he gets 4 weeks of vacation. So 48 weeks of working means he needs to be paid $225 per week, that requires $5.62 per hour.

    Of course, it's different for each state, but the principle remains. Someone can make enough money on minimum wage. If he has a family he should have been saving, but taking a minimum wage job would even be enough to support his family (and you could probably get your kids to do some odd jobs to help).

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #155
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    1) All but $25 billion has, or is in the process of, being returned to the treasury. TARP was Bush's baby. This administration placed the rules on the bailout and recouped the cash. No TARP funds are available for those reasons. Currently, those funds are being used to fund the debt from 2 off the books war and $4 trillion in Bush tax cuts.

    2) "To Democrats, "paying for" extended unemployment insurance is not the same as paying for just anything. They have two objections. The most important one -- though not the one they tend to make first -- is that cutting government spending from one part of the budget to pay for extended jobless aid diminishes the economic benefit of the aid.

    "Mainstream economists say dropping the extended benefits, which before lapsing Wednesday provided up to 73 weeks of aid above the 26 weeks always provided by states, could reduce annual economic growth by nearly one percent and could cost up to one million jobs. That's because the nearly 10 million people relying on an average $290 a week tend to spend the money immediately on necessities like food and shelter. A yearlong reauthorization of the benefits would cost roughly $60 billion -- money that would reverberate quickly throughout the economy.

    ""It's not just a matter of compassion, it's a macroeconomic issue as well," Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) told HuffPost."

    Why Democrats Won't 'Pay For' Extended Unemployment Benefits

    3) The fact that we have gotten to the point of asking whether to help Americans who are in desperate straights through no fault of their own is, well, unbelievable, actually. Simply unbelievable.
    I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. - Abigail Adams

  6. #156
    Steve
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Looking at the history of when we did nothing, the answer is a vehement yes!



    It's not a lack of jobs, that's an example of a job in very high demand. How many people are applying for janitor jobs that pay minimum wage? How about rat cage cleaners at minimum wage? Not many people going for those jobs, huh?

    The problem is that people have too high demands for unemployment. Those demands might be realized with more investment, but that won't happen in the current climate induced by an overactive government.



    Classy.
    I and LT have given you examples of job openings where people clamored to apply for low end jobs, even though some of them are well overqualified. The cruise ship jobs were in high demand because people needed a job, not because the positions were desirable, because they weren't. They were not well-paying jobs. You seem to think they were. There is a disconnect between you and the current problems being experienced by the unemployed. Personally, I have never been unemployed, but I can still understand the problems jobless people are having.


    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    For 1 person, it's $10,830 (Washington, D.C.). Let's say he gets 4 weeks of vacation. So 48 weeks of working means he needs to be paid $225 per week, that requires $5.62 per hour.

    Of course, it's different for each state, but the principle remains. Someone can make enough money on minimum wage. If he has a family he should have been saving, but taking a minimum wage job would even be enough to support his family (and you could probably get your kids to do some odd jobs to help). .
    $5.62 per hour is not even minimum wage. But, since you are a Libertarian you likely think there should be no minimum wage.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    I and LT have given you examples of job openings where people clamored to apply for low end jobs, even though some of them are well overqualified. The cruise ship jobs were in high demand because people needed a job, not because the positions were desirable, because they weren't. They were not well-paying jobs. You seem to think they were. There is a disconnect between you and the current problems being experienced by the unemployed. Personally, I have never been unemployed, but I can still understand the problems jobless people are having.
    They come with very little stress so they are desirable in that sense.

    $5.62 per hour is not even minimum wage. But, since you are a Libertarian you likely think there should be no minimum wage.
    Yup.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #158
    Advisor gmeyers1944's Avatar
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    How so? We can't go into an airport without risking an anal probe, how is that liberty?
    There are better ways to protect our liberty than sending ground troops over to get shot up and killed.
    Kindly name 1.

  9. #159
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
    Kindly name 1.
    Isolate the worst offenders guilty of harboring terrorists within their borders. Tell them to rid their country of terrorists, and Imans who preach Jihad against non-muslilms, or face further sanctions.
    Isolate Saudi Arabia first, send them a bill for 9/11....if they don't pay up, send one cruise missile to explode directly over one of the royal family's palaces. It should be a leaflet bomb. Tell them the bill is still due. If they decide to fight back, take out their entire defense infrastructure, leaving them weak and vulnerable. Tell them the bill is still due....
    Then send leaflet bombs to explode over the next terrorist supporting country...
    No ground troops needed....
    Wash, rinse, repeat as needed....

    I bet Reagan would like that idea....
    Oracle of Utah
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  10. #160
    Sage

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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Stop NOW. Your posts are void of substance only because you have nothing to say. That could be for a few reasons, you're clueless, you're a jerk or you're a troll. Whichever it is I also have no interest in you any longer. Just think now two more people are ignoring you. Good times.
    Its your loss pal. I guess you want to dish it out but cannot take it. Fine with me.

    I do notice that your posts are pretty much just bumper sticker cliches from the right wing.

    Theft is theft, what that theft does to help or not help others is immaterial.
    The usual rightist libertarian malarkey that is the kool-aid of the True Believers. Your worshipping before the altar of right wing ideology is evidenced in this comment from you concerning taxes and your invocation of Robin Hood

    The fact is I don't much care what the results without it would of been, I care for the correct means of fixing a problem, and not resorting to stealing from people.
    Of course you do not care what the results would have been. To someone like you the results never ever matter. It is all about ideology, theory, the abstract position, and the "correct means" of everything. As if there is such a thing in the real world.
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