View Poll Results: What should be done about unemployment benefits?

Voters
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  • Extend them through deficit spending

    14 21.54%
  • Extend them, but pay for them with unpaid stimulus/tarp funds

    19 29.23%
  • Don't extend them, it is unregulated welfare

    22 33.85%
  • Other, Explain:

    8 12.31%
  • Don't you touch my unemployment benefits!!

    2 3.08%
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Thread: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

  1. #131
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    [QUOTE=haymarket;1059138209]Again sir, you seem to confuse two very different things: when I ask you to explain what you believe about something or where you got this information, I am not disagreeing with such things that they did not happen in any way. I am merely asking you to say where you got this information so that your source can be examined by me to see how they are interpreting something that my indeed be open to a wide variety of interpretations and conclusions. Such is the food issue being discussed here.[/quote

    the facts of the matter (what i referenced) are that we had widespread hunger (for the first time in American history that i am aware of - assuming you discount the colonial period), and that FDR during this period deliberately raised food prices by destroying food that people could have eaten. this is hardly a deep plunging analysis of the agricultural aspects of the New Deal (though i would be most happy sitting down and discussing the collectives with you, if you wish); it's just simple reality.

    YOU are the one who brings theory into it, by attempting to apply the facts of what Roosevelt did to a theoretical framework that would make them (in technical language) "not-unimaginably-stupid". then Phatz points out to you the huge gaping flaws in that theory and you pretend to a pragmaticism belied by your own arguments.

    You also seem unaware that there are significant differences in historians and political scientists about the import and impact of all kinds of things in both fields.
    my undergraduate is in history and i am abooout 4/5th's done with my Masters in poli sci. the two are not nearly so seperate as you indicate. heck, i would argue that much of the second is simply a defined branch of the first.

    Knowledge of basic historical fact is pretty cut and dry. However it can be highly selective as well. Knowing what to select and then interpreting its importance to America and its people is a very different things and that is where people part company.
    which is why it's funny you cite Schlesinger. i might as well cite you Jim Powell


    but it remains irrelevant Because Schlesinger agreed that FDR had little interest in or understanding of economics!



    mind you, it didn't stop him (the ole progressive) from claiming that the New Deal was some kind of great shining achievement (on that i'll take exception with him); but on this point, on this point he betrays you, haymarket
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-04-10 at 05:39 PM.

  2. #132
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    ahhh - the Cato Institute!!!

    The ridiculous idea that consumers would have benefitted from farmers selling them food at prices far below what it costs to produce it fails to take in the long distance effects of such a thing. Everyone should well know that if farmers as a whole cannot produce goods and make a profit at them, there will simply be no goods in that field of production in the future. Sure, you get a cheap burger today but no beef at all in the future. FDR knew that and his economists knew that and his agricultural advisors knew that.

    I wonder why the geniuses at the Cato Insititute do not know that.
    I think they do know these things...but they are sworn to destroy our President; spin, half truths, outright lies matter not.. About 3 minutes of reading convinced me that Cato is not to be trusted.

  3. #133
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    this would be the CATO institute that spent the previous 8 years criticizing George Bush, yes?

  4. #134
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Anyway, I'm a capitalist, but I don't have a problem with the unemployment insurance setup. The general working public is not smart enough, or maybe not industrious enough to prepare for years of joblessness, or even for a few months of it. That's just the way it is. That's the reality, regardless of your ideals. But you honestly say that you don't care, and there's no arguing that. We just disagree.
    The solution then isn't to subsidize their stupidity, but to make allow the market to take its course. People will learn very quickly. Subsidizing the stupidity only breeds a sense of entitlement.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #135
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Stop NOW. Your posts are void of substance only because you have nothing to say. That could be for a few reasons, you're clueless, you're a jerk or you're a troll. Whichever it is I also have no interest in you any longer. Just think now two more people are ignoring you. Good times.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The solution then isn't to subsidize their stupidity, but to make allow the market to take its course. People will learn very quickly. Subsidizing the stupidity only breeds a sense of entitlement.
    We subsidized the banks, the automobile industry, the insurance industry, and you think its wrong to make insurance payments to individuals who actually paid into the system.
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  7. #137
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    the insurance was for 26 weeks; or, a little over 6 months. frankly, i think even that's excessive, but there you are. what we are now discussing is whether or not we should extend it for more than two years; at which point i think we can safely label it the new welfare. and i think i can safely speak for Phatz and I both when i say that we were heavily against the government aiding any of those industries.
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-06-10 at 06:48 AM.

  8. #138
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    We subsidized the banks, the automobile industry, the insurance industry, and you think its wrong to make insurance payments to individuals who actually paid into the system.
    We're extending them past what the people were due. That's what I think is wrong.

    And yes, we also subsidize all those industries. I think that's wrong as well.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #139
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Well, the justification for bailing out large businesses was that we would have had a deep depression otherwise. I believe it worked, judging by the things said at the time by people I trust, like Warren Buffet. It wasn't the government's job to do this, but it was deemed necessary.

    It also isn't the government's responsibility to over extend unemployment benefits, but necessary for a while longer since jobs are scarce. It is not an unprecedented thing.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Unemployment benefits: who's right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Well, the justification for bailing out large businesses was that we would have had a deep depression otherwise. I believe it worked, judging by the things said at the time by people I trust, like Warren Buffet. It wasn't the government's job to do this, but it was deemed necessary.
    It worked? How many years later is it and we're still at almost 10% unemployment?

    It also isn't the government's responsibility to over extend unemployment benefits, but necessary for a while longer since jobs are scarce. It is not an unprecedented thing.
    It's not necessary as it's one of the main causes of high unemployment.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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