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American Exceptionalism

Do you believe in American exceptionalism?

  • Total voters
    55
I believe that we are an exceptional nation. But I also believe that there are some nations that I would really like to use their ideas. I don't think that we are the most free nation, not anymore anyway. But I also don't believe that those nations that do have some of the freedoms that I would like to see here are better than us.

We certainly could do better in managing our government (and personal) finances. And there are other areas where we could improve, including healthcare, fair and equal treatment, dealing with drugs, legal matters, illegal immigration, etc. However, I don't think there is any nation that has it completely right.
 
Demon of Light said:
The U.S. is no more exceptional than any other country. American exceptionalism is just a romanticization of this country by nationalists who use lies and exaggerations to advance a much less altruistic agenda.
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Don't let the door hitcha in the ass.
 
To define American exceptionalism, you have to draw comparisons. Every country has its strengths and weaknesses. If you get caught up too much in pride you will fail to see the latter, and that is a dangerous precipice. It's more useful to be the best that you can be through the actions you take. The more time people sit around talking about how great they are, the less time they are spending on self-improvement. It goes for individuals and entire nations.
 
I've always seen American exceptionalism as the uniquely American devotion to rule of law in government. Unyielding respect for human rights, habeas corpus, and due process are what makes America exceptional among all the other countries that have ever existed.

It is what makes America a morally great nation. But Bush and the neo-conservatives completely abrogated America's moral exceptionalism, with torture, detentions without trial, running roughshod over civil liberties in the name of "security." Obama didn't fulfill any of his promises in this regard, and Tea-Partiers who certainly seem to have no interest in returning to the rule of law. I fear precedent set by Bush II was the undoing of the end of American exceptionalism and we may never get it back.
 
MSgt said:
Of course it's exceptional. The Declaration of Independence was truly exceptional at a time when the French were struggling through 70 years of democracy experimentation (even managed to vote in a dictator). It's the reason Europeans and Asians had a free trade pass through the Mediterranean Sea in the early 19th century. Are we really pretending that half of the world didn't gravitate towards us post WWII? It's the reason beaten World War II enemies got a fair shake unlike the beaten WWI enemies. It's the reason Europe picked itself back up and the reason Japan is an economic success. It's the reason everyone looks to America to lead every true crisis. It's the reason a divided Germany and a divided Korea wants Americans parked at their borders. It's the reason Hollywood has been the greatest influence upon other cultures. It's the reason the UN didn't crumble away like the League of Nations. It's the reason we live in a globalized world today. It's the reason so much of the world's economy is absolutely invested in us. And it's the reason space is being explored. It's the reason we have the reputation for good morality, which is certainly the reason the whole world has a heart attack whenever we are less than perfect and mimic a sliver of what they do.

America destroyed, helped destroy, or had been a part of the destruction of 11 empires in its history. The greatest force for good with the most powerful military in history managed to become the only super power without becoming a dictatorship, without being imperialists, and without colonizing the world. It managed to re-create itself through the centuries with every wave of immigration because it chose not to default to ethnic cleansing and extermination.

Every nation has its reasons to declare exceptionalism within their borders. But only America can truly be exceptional in regards to leading the world to a positive place. American exceptionalism transcends its borders.
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All this indicates is that anyone who says America is exceptional is not even sufficiently well-versed in American history let alone world history. Even though people know about how we treated the natives and about things like slavery, Jim Crow, and internment camps in World War II people still say we are "better" than other countries. None of that is even close to summarizing all the bloody and oppressive aspects of our history.

American said:
Don't let the door hitcha in the ass.
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Yeah because the last thing a freedom-loving society needs is a dissenting voice to tell it when it is wrong.
 
I tend to roll my eyes at American Exceptionalism.

It's the same attitude that was prevalent during the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire fell because they bought into their own legend. ALL empires boom then bust. America is good right now, but I'm under no illusions that it's the country that will endure for all time.
 
Demon of Light said:
All this indicates is that anyone who says America is exceptional is not even sufficiently well-versed in American history let alone world history. Even though people know about how we treated the natives and about things like slavery, Jim Crow, and internment camps in World War II people still say we are "better" than other countries. None of that is even close to summarizing all the bloody and oppressive aspects of our history.
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The other thing is that the U.S. isn't that old. It did invent a lot of new ideas about governance but if those ideas don't stand the test of time then what's the point?

Comparing the U.S. to France is comparing a young country to a very old country, so it's important to delineate the big picture here.
 
Guy Incognito said:
But Bush and the neo-conservatives completely abrogated America's moral exceptionalism, with torture, detentions without trial, running roughshod over civil liberties in the name of "security."
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You obviously haven't read much of their writings if you believe that.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I've always seen American exceptionalism as the uniquely American devotion to rule of law in government. Unyielding respect for human rights, habeas corpus, and due process are what makes America exceptional among all the other countries that have ever existed.
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Are we talking about the same America, here? Because I just spent a few hours getting roasted on another site for defending the Trail of Tears.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Are we talking about the same America, here? Because I just spent a few hours getting roasted on another site for defending the Trail of Tears.
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Wow, do you also defend the Bataan March?

.
 
ricksfolly said:
Exceptional at doing what, not just a general assessment of dozens of noteworthy accomplishments.
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Right now, I don't think we're particularly exceptional at much of anything. Economically, are we exceptional? I think not. Politically? No. Are we a business powerhouse? No. Socially? Hell no. There's nothing all that special about us in practice at the moment, about all anyone can argue is that we're exceptional ideologically, but how much does that matter when the ideas don't match the reality?
 
I'll modify my original post, for further clarity:

No, America is not exceptional. Exceptional would mean that it is unique and great and unparalleled in the world, which it certainly is not. America has many virtues, and many detriments. It has done great things for the world, and also horrible things for the world. It has both advanced and impeded the march towards progress, and its people have both been noble, honourable and intelligent, and greedy, selfish and arrogant.

America is not exceptional because it is not substantially different from any of the othe great nations in history, nor the other great powers of today.

America is just one player among many on the grand canvas of history, and affording it the title of "best", "greatest" or "exceptional" would be incorrect and arrogant, often even nationalistic.

Has America done great things? Yes. Has America done horrible things? Yes. Is America an important nation when looking at the entire history of the world? Yes. Is America exceptional because of it? No, definitely not.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Do you believe in American exceptionalism?

American exceptionalism: an old idea and a new political battle
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This is my first post here, so I may have missed most of the discussion.

However, when I hear, "American Exceptionalism," I believe that most of those who use it say that America is exceptional just because. I believe that's wrong. America isn't exceptional just because we're America - any exceptionalism of the United States is because of it's people and culture, which is an insult to those who have made the U.S. as great as it is, and an insult to the ways in which they've done so.

Also, I think the belief of American Exceptionalism white-washes the abuses and horrors that our government and culture have perpetuated on others. The genocide of the Native Americans is one. Abuses to children and workers is another.

So while I do think that the United States, as a whole, is exceptional, I don't think it is an inherent quality, and I don't think it is perfect.
 
At a point in our history, America was exceptional, but since WW1, many countries have become democracies and we lost that edge.
 
I think we are a great country...perhaps the best in the world, perhaps in history.

But I again am still more interested in the fact that most people are focusing on that good nature, rather than just a peculiar people that we are, which does not necessarily mean good, better, or best.
 
There are few well thought out posts that support the Nation that first recognized individual rights to speak out and make their feelings and thoughts known.

Are there things we could have done better as a Nation? Hell yes.

If one takes the time and stops being a "Firster for few minutes and weighs the Nations accomplishments compared to all other Nations in History in all areas of Human existence the United States comes out on top by a wide margin, whether you are talking about literature, science, Medicine, Government, individual and human rights.

You name a subject and the contribution to human kind by our Nation is unequaled, and it's the American people acting under the Greatest two documents ever written in the History of the World that made it possible.

Without the Declaration of Independence and Our Constitution we would be no better than any other Nation.

What is amazing to me is how many people who is asked would claim to be good Americans are in fact "Firster" who want nothing less than the destruction of America and it comes out in their hateful name calling post here every day.

I am ashamed of them and wish they would stop pretending to care about the Nation they clearly hate and love to bash.

Now they have a leader to bolster their hateful Anti-American rants.

If this shoe doesn't fit don't put it on!
 
megaprogman said:
At a point in our history, America was exceptional, but since WW1, many countries have become democracies and we lost that edge.
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That inherently implies that somehow simply having votes made us exceptional. Aside from the fact we were far from the first to implement such a method the abusive system we employed was actual several degrees worse than that of several other countries. This is not consider the influence of mob violence. Of course, it is not surprising because people actually say the words "American does not torture" and think those words have some historic significance when they really just indicate someone has not done enough research into U.S. history.

Sure, the U.S. was formed on the basis of some rather great principles, but this country was not even close to living up to them for nearly two centuries. China also has a number of great principles but when you get right down to it what matters is implementation not theoretical potential.

Councilman said:
There are few well thought out posts that support the Nation that first recognized individual rights to speak out and make their feelings and thoughts known.
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Actually the first recorded instance of a country recognizing human rights was an act by Cyrus the Great of the Persian Empire that gave people the right to practice their religion and abolished slavery. Ironically the supposedly freedom-loving Greeks that are always portrayed as such humanist advocates of liberty by the West in films and history courses, with the savage Easterners portrayed as bloodthirsty imperialists, were long involved in the slave trade.

If one takes the time and stops being a "Firster for few minutes and weighs the Nations accomplishments compared to all other Nations in History in all areas of Human existence the United States comes out on top by a wide margin, whether you are talking about literature, science, Medicine, Government, individual and human rights.
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That depends on how you gauge it. Are you counting Albert Einstein and Nikola Tesla among those who have accomplished something for America despite them both being from Europe? Let us not forget that the Founders did not come up with much, but simply looked at the ideas of various people in history from Europe and elsewhere. Benjamin Franklin in particular was a fan of Confucius.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
Are we talking about the same America, here? Because I just spent a few hours getting roasted on another site for defending the Trail of Tears.
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That's a fair criticism, and I can't really think of a good response. Until the civil rights era America was quite unexceptional. But there was a stretch between LBJ and Clinton where it seemed like the country was really living up that ideal, or at least on the right track.

Perhaps American Exceptionalism isn't so much something ascertainable as it is a quest toward an unattainable sort of justice. But ever since Bush I feel like that quest has been abandoned.
 
liblady said:
not as defined by gingrich. god doesn't favor america, it's plain stupid to believe so. if he did, perhaps he should think again about which countries really need his help.
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except if it is true, then it is plain stupid to believe he doesn't...

Originally Posted by Gardner
Yep -- I think we ARE exceptional.

We have a long history of taking in people from all over the world, and shaping them into a melting pot society that has led the world in innovation. Sure, we have our warts, and it is easy for resentful or unhappy people to focus on those warts, but the preoccupation with fault finding by the resentful can sure get tiring at times.
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A mixed salad is a better term than melting pot... but I agree, we have faults and that will happen to even the best, and that is the USA to a large degree. We give more aid to the world than just about the entire world combined, we take in people and have amazing rights... can it improve, yes... everything can though.
 
This is a very good thread and I thank the OP for making it. It is good and necessary because, as far as I can make out, most Americans feel that the USA is both exceptional, and better than any other society past or present. Such attitudes benefit from wide ranging discussion and analysis.

My view is that the USA is exceptional to exactly the same degree that every other society on earth is exceptional. That is, there are things peculiar to US society, just as there are things peculiar to Australian, British, Canadian, French, German, Italian, Swedish, Russian, Chinese, Indian and Indonesian (to name a few) society. There are things the US, as a society, does better than other nations, and there are things other nations do better than the US. This is the way of the world, it has always been thus, and will always be thus.

There is no such animal as 'the best country in the world', and the attitude that mine is the best in the world (basically for no better reason than I was born there) is a childish one which betrays a lack of knowledge (no one can know everything about every other society) and a certain personal insecurity (proclaiming my superiority over everyone else, assuages a suppressed fear that I am actually not quite as good as they are).

Accordingly, I have voted that the USA is unexceptional. Which is not the same thing as saying it is without value. :)
 
I should like to point out in fairness that "Exceptionalism" is not restricted to the US. "My country rules, yours drools" can be found in virtually every country in the world.

We tend to focus more on American Exceptionalism because, for the most part, we tend to be the biggest dicks about it :)
 
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