View Poll Results: Is Obama a...

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  • Marxist

    2 2.63%
  • Communist

    1 1.32%
  • Socialist

    12 15.79%
  • Black Liberation thingy

    4 5.26%
  • Democrat

    35 46.05%
  • Republican

    0 0%
  • Muslim

    2 2.63%
  • Buzz Lightyear

    9 11.84%
  • White

    3 3.95%
  • Emperor Palpatine

    8 10.53%
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Thread: Is Obama.....?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    But he would prefer single payer health care (no insurance companies)
    Obama has stated, clearly, that if he was building a health care system from the ground up, single payer would be his preference, but that with the system we have in place, single payer is not the way to go. He has not proposed or worked for single payer.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #42
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Intresting. Apparently Europe has a view of what is Socialism that is far further left than the common American view. What you are calling Socialism, we'd call Communism (as in, the further-left more-extreme version of socialism.)
    The difference is not just a matter of degree. Leftists are either bad or ok: When they support dictatorship, want to abolish the Constitutional state, terminate civil rights and replace free elections with a police state, that's bad. The communists/socialists in the East Bloc, the Soviet Union and their satellites, did that until 1989. Their governments forced policies on their peoples, and the people had no voice.

    Left-leaning politicians who propose an increase of social safety nets, welfare or public healthcare, but respect the constitutional, democratic process by running for elections, respect constitutional civil rights are absolutely ok, although it's fine to disagree with them. But they are not evil. They don't do anything sinister: They make a political proposal, run in elections with an according platform, and if the people feels they agree with him, they elect him and give him the mandate to realize this policy proposal. That has nothing at all to do with communism or socialism la Soviet Union or Marx.

    Obama belongs to the latter category: When he ran for President in 2008, part of his platform was a reform of the health insurance system. The people agreed with him and elected him. So he put through this reform once in office, because that is what the people had ordered him to do. If you disagree with Obama, you are free to vote against him and his party in elections. Obama does not want to take this freedom from you.

    That is the exact opposite of what Marxist governments did in the East Block: They forced policies down on their peoples who had no voice and were brutally oppressed. Obama, on the other hand, does not force anything down on people, but on the contrary just does what the people has ordered him to do. That is the exact opposite.

    As far as I can tell, that's the difference most Europeans see between evil Marxist socialists, and legitimate social liberals or social democrats: The former are evil because they don't respect democracy and civil rights, the latter are fine, because they respect Constitution, civil rights and democracy, and when they are elected and make according policies, they do what the people wants (else the wouldn't have elected him).

    This is where, I think, the fact that you aren't American and don't live here results in gaps in your knowlege.

    The fact is that America has bent over backwards to make up for past discrimination. Equal-opportunity mandates in work, housing and education have been heavily funded, along with various social programs, to attempt to give blacks the "hand up" to assume full equality in society.

    Furthermore racism against blacks is one of the most taboo of taboos in modern American society. Even the slightest hint of it can doom any career that involves being in the public spotlight. Interracial marriage and bi-racial children are now widely (almost universally) accepted, even in the South.

    Some black folks have taken up the opportunities that have been created over the past 30-40 years, and now are middle-class businesspeople, doctors, lawyers, CEO's and other prosperous professionals.

    Many have not. As Bill Cosby aptly said, this lack is largely or entirely the black community's own fault, for failing to grasp opportunity and in some cases preferring to hang on to victimhood and entitlement mindsets.
    I knew things have changed since the end of legal discrimination. I'm just not so sure the fact many blacks are still disadvantaged is their fault, and has nothing at all to do with prevailing racism. But you are right, I don't live in America and can't comment on it first hand.

    So I'd like to know from other Americans here: What do you think?

    Is the situation for African Americans/blacks so good in today's America that they have the same chances and prospects as whites, so when they don't achieve, it's only their fault and has nothing to do at all with white racism or structural disadvantages stemming from past discrimination?

    Are blacks to blame that their demographic still is not as wealthy and educated in average, compared to whites?

    Racism is racism. A black who hates whites, is just as rascist as a white who hates blacks, and it should be acceptible to call it what it is.
    Sure. But something just doesn't feel right about it, if you ask me. For example: The few hundred thousand Jews who live in Germany today are not legally discriminated at all, they enjoy all constitutional civil rights as other Germans, and there is no persecution. And while some of them may indeed be racist or fascist, it still seems awkward to me when non-Jewish Germans called some Jews "racist" or "fascist", in order to explain certain attitudes of Jews, because of our past.

    What do you think about this example? Should non-Jewish Germans be careful not to use according labels when it comes to Jews, regardless of the question if they may be appropriate in a particular case?
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  3. #43
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Obama is Gregor Gysi, Lothar Bisky and Oskar Lafontaine wrapped into one, and is as slick as all three but lacks the intellectual firepower of the Gysi and Lafontaine. He's on par with and is as irritating and lost as Renate Kunast and her red haired sidekick Claudia Roth.

    His home is Die Linke Partei.
    Let's see: Obama is attacked as a "socialist" because of his stimulus, for bailing out banks and for the healthcare reform. In Germany, Merkel and her conservative CDU/CSU (Christian Democrats) support the semi-public, semi-private health care system, they too made a stimulus and bailed out banks to counter the crisis. Also, both Merkel's CDU/CSU and Obama support nuclear power. On most other issues, Obama is even further to the right than Merkel and her conservative CDU/CSU.

    Naw, Obama is not Gysi, Bisky or Lafontaine: If he lived in Germany, he'd most likely be a conservative Christian Democrat.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  4. #44
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You do know that the health care package is NOT single payer, right?
    you do know that's only because he didn't have votes in the DEMOCRAT caucus, right?

  5. #45
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    I voted Buzz Lightyear... because he's taking spending and the deficit 'to infinity... and beyond!'


  6. #46
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    That's an awesome pic.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  7. #47
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you do know that's only because he didn't have votes in the DEMOCRAT caucus, right?
    And how many did he have for that issue in the Republican caucus?
    __________________________________________________ _
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  8. #48
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissLToe View Post
    The Democratic Party has evolved into being more about socialism than anything else. It ain't your Democratic Party of the 1800s.
    Or 1950's, early 60's.

    JFK wouldn't have a home in the modern Dem Party.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  9. #49
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    He sure didn't show it.
    Yes he did. In plain English. November 21, 2007.
    NHPR.org - Illinois Senator and Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama

    It is in there, have a listen... he states exactly that loud and clear. Paraphrasing... if he could start from scratch he would have single payer... eliminating profits from insurance companies.

    He's a socialist at a bare minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    So would I. Then again, I deal with insurance companies every day and I understand their scams and see them everytime I deal with them. Of course, that doesn't make me a socialist either. Try not to through around generalized words when you are talking about specifics. I'm sure that Obama is in favor of the government-run postal service. If that makes him a socialist, that means every President we've had has been a socialist. See what happens when you overgeneralize?
    There is no scam bigger than the federal government controlling health care. And when they tell you no, you're ****ed.

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Let's see: Obama is attacked as a "socialist" because of his stimulus, for bailing out banks and for the healthcare reform. In Germany, Merkel and her conservative CDU/CSU (Christian Democrats) support the semi-public, semi-private health care system, they too made a stimulus and bailed out banks to counter the crisis. Also, both Merkel's CDU/CSU and Obama support nuclear power. On most other issues, Obama is even further to the right than Merkel and her conservative CDU/CSU.

    Naw, Obama is not Gysi, Bisky or Lafontaine: If he lived in Germany, he'd most likely be a conservative Christian Democrat.
    ROTFLOL... CDU/CSU! LOL...

    As you pointed out way back when, Schroeder started some economic reforms... Obama isn't cut from that cloth. He couldn't cut a sheet of paper.

    Germany has over 100-years of entrenched socialism, and a press hostile to the free market. I recall Kirchoff's effect in 2005(?). It was an incredible sight. So, if someone wants a political future, they have to support socialist healthcare. Only when it gets so bad and collapses will there be change. With the slowing population growth, masses of retirees, economic pressures from emerging nations, it might take a couple more decades. It would require a long, slow slog to change minds... it'll be faster to watch the mess collapse.

    CDU/CSU... no chance... Merkel lectured Obama on his spending. SPD? perhaps... he'd be on the far left of their docket. Die Linke is his home. Obi, Gysi and Lafontaine would have a heck of a good time together. I think he'd have pulled a Lafontaine... been a member of the SPD and leave the party for his real home.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 11-29-10 at 06:41 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  10. #50
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    Re: Is Obama.....?

    1. Obama subscribes to a version of the ideal of Social Justice. He believes that the federal government is the best vehicle for use in achieving his conception of Social Justice.

    2. Obama is not a Muslim. He is an Islamophile.

    3. Obama is a lawyer and politician. That means he's a liar.

    4. Obama is inexperienced. That means he's incompetent. As are his advisors.

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