View Poll Results: Which statement best reflects your opinion of the GM "thank you" ad?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's perfectly fine and appropriate.

    10 33.33%
  • It's ok but inaccurate. American's didn't voluntarily bail out GM

    5 16.67%
  • It's 100% inaccurate. The Gov. inappropriately bailed out GM.

    3 10.00%
  • It's a joke. The Gov. overstepped its bounds using tax money to buy an auto company.

    8 26.67%
  • Other (write in / explain)

    3 10.00%
  • Tarter sauce.

    1 3.33%
Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 61 to 70 of 70

Thread: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

  1. #61
    Guru
    repeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    07-15-14 @ 12:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,445

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    That is how capitalism works... I understand that it would effect people, and I feel badly for them, but that does not change the point that saving companies who have no business being in business anymore to "help people" is absurd.
    I agree there can be some regulations, but preventing collapses has no place in our economic system in my opinion.
    Then agree to disagree?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    This is an unfair question since governments always ride in and never allow the market to work as it should.
    It doesn't have to be in economics. I was making a broad statement, that life is based on compromises and moderate views work better than absolute views.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
    -Gaius Julius Caesar
    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
    -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

  2. #62
    Educator
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    02-04-15 @ 11:02 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    808

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Then agree to disagree?
    Works for me. I always enjoy a good back and forth.

    It doesn't have to be in economics. I was making a broad statement, that life is based on compromises and moderate views work better than absolute views.
    The Earth revolves around the sun.

  3. #63
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Do you know of any study that did a breakdown of what bailed out banks owed to other banks, and those banks capitalizations etc, to actually prove that if banks were not bailed all other institutions would have followed in failure?

    I get tired of the argument of "If we did not bail them out, then god knows what would have happened." (Not that you made that persay, but you get my point)
    Ju
    It is not just what was owed to other banks but Credit Default Obligations. Imagine if Goldman put out $30 billion on a Citi default, a $30 billion dollar loss would have wiped out goldman. Just as a Greek default would wipe out major german banks. The main issue is that leverage in the US and most countries has been allowed to grow to massive levels, making even small loss's a potential crisis.

    At a 1 to 10 leverage things would not have been bad, but at 1 to 30 or 40 then things do get very bad very quickly. And yes the US system did and does need to be overhauled, the recent reformation is no where near enough
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  4. #64
    Educator
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    02-04-15 @ 11:02 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    808

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Ju
    It is not just what was owed to other banks but Credit Default Obligations. Imagine if Goldman put out $30 billion on a Citi default, a $30 billion dollar loss would have wiped out goldman. Just as a Greek default would wipe out major german banks. The main issue is that leverage in the US and most countries has been allowed to grow to massive levels, making even small loss's a potential crisis.
    I will admit I am not 100% sure how Credit Default Obligations function.. that said, were those issued by banks of their own free will? If so, it seems they took a risk and lost.

    At a 1 to 10 leverage things would not have been bad, but at 1 to 30 or 40 then things do get very bad very quickly. And yes the US system did and does need to be overhauled, the recent reformation is no where near enough
    How are we ever going to overhaul anything if banks are allowed to continue to make bad bets knowing it won't ultimately matter if they take a big enough bad bet?

  5. #65
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:33 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,006

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    Here. this is a full-page ad taken out by literally hundreds of equally notable economists who came together to say that Krugman's claim that the porkulus was necessary to avoid a depression was bunk (not specifically attacking him; just that claim).

    so Krugman is alone in his views?


    that's the problem with appealing to a single authority in a contentious issue; there are bound to be others who disagree.


    NOW


    are you willing to stand up and attempt to defend the ridiculous claim that somehow our economy was saved by the GM bailout, or that the massive removal of investment capital via the "stimulus" somehow magically helped the economy?
    so Krugman is standing alone in his views and nobody else agrees with this position?

    I could not help but notice the ECONOMIST magazine, who opposed the help for the auto industry, has now issued an apology to the President and said it worked.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-28-10 at 11:13 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #66
    Educator
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    02-04-15 @ 11:02 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    808

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    so Krugman is standing alone in his views and nobody else agrees with this position?
    I think the point is that Krugman represents one side of an issue with many sides, and is by no means the definative voice on the matter.

  7. #67
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    so Krugman is standing alone in his views and nobody else agrees with this position?
    no, other keyensians generally agree with the notion of deficit stimulus. they then tend to break into camps over whether this is best done through spending or tax cuts. if you had actually bothered to read the research i gave you earlier, you would have noted that.

    but it's not enough to say "look, here is a person of note in the econmic school i support". I could (if i wanted to) just as easily put up milton friedman, cite Hayek, or any of the other noted economists who disagreed with Keyenes and would likely disagree with Krugman. (of note, even keynes would have likely disagreed with Krugman, though over the issue of scale; Keynes argued that government spending over 25% of GDP was damaging; we are at that line now and Krugman is urging us to surge past it in the magical theory that even more debt will somehow equal even more wealth. some people really can't get their heads around accrual accounting.)



    but i retain my point; given that the economists were sharply divided; would you mind providing some kind of evidence that bailing out GM saved us from depression? in particular i would like to hear any particular reasons why this bankruptcy would have been somehow different from other corporate bankruptcies; in the claims that GM would have for some reason stopped producing automobiles.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-28-10 at 11:49 PM.

  8. #68
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I will admit I am not 100% sure how Credit Default Obligations function.. that said, were those issued by banks of their own free will? If so, it seems they took a risk and lost.



    How are we ever going to overhaul anything if banks are allowed to continue to make bad bets knowing it won't ultimately matter if they take a big enough bad bet?
    i agree with you here

    I would not have forced any bank to take TARP money or get a bailout. But any that did, I would have wanted the shareholders to be wiped out and have bond holders and depositers take hits according to the loss`s the institution suffered
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  9. #69
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    I will admit I am not 100% sure how Credit Default Obligations function.. that said, were those issued by banks of their own free will? If so, it seems they took a risk and lost.



    How are we ever going to overhaul anything if banks are allowed to continue to make bad bets knowing it won't ultimately matter if they take a big enough bad bet?
    Credit default swap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Basically a CDS is a bet either for or against a default on debts

    I could purchase from Goldman a few billion dollars worth of CDS if GM defaulted on its credit obligations. I would have to pay Goldman a certain amount of money per month or year depending on the length of the contract. Normally most people would use a CDS as a hedge if their investment does default, but you could purchase a CDS on the potential of GM defaulting without owning any GM debt. They were issued by their own free will, and were issued in the hundreds of billions of dollars. LehmanBrothers going under and the CDS`s issued by AIG was a primary cause of its faluire
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  10. #70
    Guru
    JohnWOlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Last Seen
    01-17-17 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,594

    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    I had mixed response to it originally but now I say what I originally said- screw GM they make crappy cars that aren't ahead in anyway of their far superior American counterparts of Toyota and Honda, and they make nearly as much if not more of their money in China which I am strongly against. They should have fallen, their brands sold to others (which would have encouraged competition) and it would have put jobs in my area (where Honda and Toyota is prevalent). I say boo and btw they didn't actually pay the entire loan, just what the government asked for back, yet the government threatens me about my student loans. You ****ing serious? You can give them billions and forgive over half of it as that wasn't the actual "loan" but you can't forgive me on any of my loans? Go **** yourself government.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •