View Poll Results: Which statement best reflects your opinion of the GM "thank you" ad?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's perfectly fine and appropriate.

    10 33.33%
  • It's ok but inaccurate. American's didn't voluntarily bail out GM

    5 16.67%
  • It's 100% inaccurate. The Gov. inappropriately bailed out GM.

    3 10.00%
  • It's a joke. The Gov. overstepped its bounds using tax money to buy an auto company.

    8 26.67%
  • Other (write in / explain)

    3 10.00%
  • Tarter sauce.

    1 3.33%
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Thread: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

  1. #51
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Absolutes work, if you let them... just because you don't want to deal with the pain of a true recovery does not mean it was not the better option. It is a simple point...when companies cannot compete.. they need to fail... not get bailed.
    Yes. We should have let all our major financial corporations along with our automotive industry all collapse. First of, our unemployment would be a hell of a lot higher then 9.5%. Next, no one would have any trust in the remaining banks, and they would fail soon too. Overseas, it'd be the same thing. The world economy would collapse, millions upon millions of people will be unemployed, and our governments won't be able to support them. Any person to honestly want that is either insane, or a sane fool.

    This would have been several times worse than the Great Depression, and we wouldn't have a world war to save us. We'd be screwing ourselves for generations to come.
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  2. #52
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Yes. We should have let all our major financial corporations along with our automotive industry all collapse. First of, our unemployment would be a hell of a lot higher then 9.5%. Next, no one would have any trust in the remaining banks, and they would fail soon too. Overseas, it'd be the same thing. The world economy would collapse, millions upon millions of people will be unemployed, and our governments won't be able to support them. Any person to honestly want that is either insane, or a sane fool.
    You assume all major financial institutions would have failed... that is simply not accurate. You assume all car companies would have failed.. that again is not true. What would happen is the banks that survived would boom, the car companies that survived would boom, because they were managed soundly. New companies would be started to take their place and meet the demand. In terms of unemployment, would it be difficult for awhile if these companies failed? Yes. Had GM (for example) gone bankrupt it would have put a lot of people out of work.. it is the same for any large company.

    However, the idea that we will go around bailing out company after company because it might "hurt the unemployment numbers if they fail" is patently absurd... regardless of the scope. As it stands, all we are doing it creating new economic bubbles and trying to kick the problems down the road.. that is no solution.
    Last edited by NolaMan; 11-28-10 at 10:18 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    You assume all major financial institutions would have failed... that is simply not accurate. You assume all car companies would have failed.. that again is not true. What would happen is the banks that survived would boom, the car companies that survived would boom, because they were managed soundly. New companies would be started to take their place and meet the demand. In terms of unemployment, would it be difficult for awhile if these companies failed? Yes. Had GM (for example) gone bankrupt it would have put a lot of people out of work.. it is the same for any large company.

    However, the idea that we will go around bailing out company after company because it might "hurt the unemployment numbers if they fail" is patently absurd... regardless of the scope.
    Again, you're not taking into account the numbers. A lot of banks would fail. Most of our big car companies would fail. Yeah, we would have a few left. Its not about what we'd have, its about what we'd lose. We'd lose far too much for it to be a practical option. In a theoretical execercise where what happens doesn't matter, sure, let them fail. When you're talking about real people, real wealth, and real companies, the facts change.

    And you seem to have trouble with moderation of different principles. We should have a free market with some regulations. We should prevent out massive collapses. What we shouldn't do is make an absolute statement and then stick with it.

    By the way, could you give me an example where absolutes actually worked?
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  4. #54
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    You assume all major financial institutions would have failed... that is simply not accurate. You assume all car companies would have failed.. that again is not true. What would happen is the banks that survived would boom, the car companies that survived would boom, because they were managed soundly. New companies would be started to take their place and meet the demand. In terms of unemployment, would it be difficult for awhile if these companies failed? Yes. Had GM (for example) gone bankrupt it would have put a lot of people out of work.. it is the same for any large company.

    However, the idea that we will go around bailing out company after company because it might "hurt the unemployment numbers if they fail" is patently absurd... regardless of the scope. As it stands, all we are doing it creating new economic bubbles and trying to kick the problems down the road.. that is no solution.
    Which finanicial institutions would have survived with out the AIG bailout, the fannie and freddie bailout and Tarp? Given the interconnected nature of the financial industry, each of the major institutions would have been wiped out with the various bailouts.
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Which finanicial institutions would have survived with out the AIG bailout, the fannie and freddie bailout and Tarp? Given the interconnected nature of the financial industry, each of the major institutions would have been wiped out with the various bailouts.
    Numerous banks refused to take bailout money...some were forced to take bailout under the TARP plan as well that did not want it. Saigon National, based in the Orange County, California took it but did not want it (they stated it was cheap money, so why not take it), Frost bank, based in San Antonio, refused to take any bailout money. If the major financial institutions failed, it would have opened the door for well run large regional banks that did not take (or need) bailout money to step up and take their place.

    There are a lot of regional banks that fit into this category... well run banks that protected themselves against problems like this and got screwed over for having good management.

    Commerce Bancshares said no, New York Community Bancorp said no, BancorpSouth Inc said no, Hudson City Bancorp, Tulsa-based BOK Financial, and People's United Financial all said no.
    Last edited by NolaMan; 11-28-10 at 10:34 PM.

  6. #56
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    Numerous banks refused to take bailout money...some were forced to take bailout under the TARP plan as well that did not want it. Saigon National, based in the Orange County, California took it but did not want it (they stated it was cheap money, so why not take it), Frost bank, based in San Antonio, refused to take any bailout money. If the major financial institutions failed, it would have opened the door for well run large regional banks that did not take (or need) bailout money to step up and take their place.

    There are a lot of regional banks that fit into this category... well run banks that protected themselves against problems like this and got screwed over for having good management.
    Not what I was refering to

    When a financial institution fails, its debts and obligations to other institutions (including CDO and other similar investments) also fail.

    When AIG failed the US government ended up giving around 80 billion to financial institutions. Along that money along with TARP did prevent other institutions from failing, which if they had failed would have seen plenty of other institutions failing. A cascade effect
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Again, you're not taking into account the numbers. A lot of banks would fail. Most of our big car companies would fail. Yeah, we would have a few left. Its not about what we'd have, its about what we'd lose. We'd lose far too much for it to be a practical option. In a theoretical execercise where what happens doesn't matter, sure, let them fail. When you're talking about real people, real wealth, and real companies, the facts change.
    That is how capitalism works... I understand that it would effect people, and I feel badly for them, but that does not change the point that saving companies who have no business being in business anymore to "help people" is absurd.

    And you seem to have trouble with moderation of different principles. We should have a free market with some regulations. We should prevent out massive collapses. What we shouldn't do is make an absolute statement and then stick with it.
    I agree there can be some regulations, but preventing collapses has no place in our economic system in my opinion.

    By the way, could you give me an example where absolutes actually worked?
    This is an unfair question since governments always ride in and never allow the market to work as it should.

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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Not what I was refering to

    When a financial institution fails, its debts and obligations to other institutions (including CDO and other similar investments) also fail.

    When AIG failed the US government ended up giving around 80 billion to financial institutions. Along that money along with TARP did prevent other institutions from failing, which if they had failed would have seen plenty of other institutions failing. A cascade effect
    So if one company fails, our entire system collapses is your assertion here? If that is accurate, it sounds as if the system needs to fail and be rebuilt from the ground up...

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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by NolaMan View Post
    So if one company fails, our entire system collapses is your assertion here? If that is accurate, it sounds as if the system needs to fail and be rebuilt from the ground up...
    Not if one fails no of course not, but if many do in a short perriod of time yes.

    If 3 of the big 5 Canadian banks all failed at with a year the Canadian economy would collapse, if one did, it wouldnt as the other 4 could take over the assets and keep on running
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    Re: What do you think of GM's "thank you" ad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Not if one fails no of course not, but if many do in a short perriod of time yes.

    If 3 of the big 5 Canadian banks all failed at with a year the Canadian economy would collapse, if one did, it wouldnt as the other 4 could take over the assets and keep on running
    Do you know of any study that did a breakdown of what bailed out banks owed to other banks, and those banks capitalizations etc, to actually prove that if banks were not bailed all other institutions would have followed in failure?

    I get tired of the argument of "If we did not bail them out, then god knows what would have happened." (Not that you made that persay, but you get my point)

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