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Would you vote for the compromise?

How would you vote on the compromise as described in the OP?


  • Total voters
    49
Not totally true, not when the conservatives control so much media.

LOL that is funny. I guess if you are a marxist then CNN, MSNBC, ABC and CBS are conservative compared to you so you might have a fair point from your perspective. But most rational people don't believe the media in the USA is conservative.
 
and why is that good?

Because it's fair, and equal, and it's not good for a portion of the population to feel like they have no say in how their lives are shaped.
 
Because it's fair, and equal, and it's not good for a portion of the population to feel like they have no say in how their lives are shaped.

so if it is your position that each person is in the best position to make decisions about government based on their perspective of self interest why are you a liberal? The entire premise of modern leftwing liberalism is that the elites are in a better position to decide what is best for most people than those people themselves
 
This democracy may or may not be "good", but its a hell of a lot better than a right-wing nationalistic repressive government.

another false analogy
 
Apparently slavery did not bother the Founding Fathers either. But we corrected that down the line. Apparently sexism did not bother them either. But we corrected that down the line. Apparently the privilege that comes with land ownership and being propertied did not bother them either. But we corrected that down the line.

I see we are making progress now that you have conceded a main point

And yes, it would impact the dems more. DUH!

Now all you have to do is concede the same for both its negative impact on African Americans and Hispanics.

Slowly the curtain is being pulled back and the old and feeble man masquerading as a wise and benevolent wizard is being exposed for all to see.
 
Apparently slavery did not bother the Founding Fathers either. But we corrected that down the line. Apparently sexism did not bother them either. But we corrected that down the line. Apparently the privilege that comes with land ownership and being propertied did not bother them either. But we corrected that down the line.

I see we are making progress now that you have conceded a main point



Now all you have to do is concede the same for both its negative impact on African Americans and Hispanics.

Slowly the curtain is being pulled back and the old and feeble man masquerading as a wise and benevolent wizard is being exposed for all to see.

That is an interesting analogy for someone who works for the party that wants wizards telling the benighted masses that the all wise wizard knows how to run their lives better than they do

I always get a laugh out of American lefties claiming they want equal franchise because each person is in the best position to decide for themselves yet they eschew that very principle when it comes to government.
 
That is an interesting analogy for someone who works for the party that wants wizards telling the benighted masses that the all wise wizard knows how to run their lives better than they do

I always get a laugh out of American lefties claiming they want equal franchise because each person is in the best position to decide for themselves yet they eschew that very principle when it comes to government.

Not exactly your turtleship. What I want is every citizen to have the right to vote because they are a citizen of this nation. That is not a really complicated, detailed or even nuanced position.
 
so if it is your position that each person is in the best position to make decisions about government based on their perspective of self interest why are you a liberal? The entire premise of modern leftwing liberalism is that the elites are in a better position to decide what is best for most people than those people themselves

You obviously don't know my views, or liberalism well then. I think people should be free to live their own lives plain, and simple. I'm socially liberal more than fiscally liberal, but I do think the government should provide things so that people do not die out in the streets, but shouldn't tell them through law on how to live.
 
Not exactly your turtleship. What I want is every citizen to have the right to vote because they are a citizen of this nation. That is not a really complicated, detailed or even nuanced position.

and that is based on a belief that each individual is in the best position to advance his or her own self interests. Something your party rejects in the heart of its agenda
 
You obviously don't know my views, or liberalism well then. I think people should be free to live their own lives plain, and simple. I'm socially liberal more than fiscally liberal, but I do think the government should provide things so that people do not die out in the streets, but shouldn't tell them through law on how to live.

excellent-you sound alot more libertarian than a bunch of posers who claim to be.
 
and that is based on a belief that each individual is in the best position to advance his or her own self interests. Something your party rejects in the heart of its agenda

Not exactly. Its based on the idea that if you are a citizen in a representative democracy then you have the democratic right to vote for the representatives.
 
excellent-you sound alot more libertarian than a bunch of posers who claim to be.

I really do hate all the nanny state crap some democrats, and republicans try to push down our throats, and it does piss me off. Though I do think welfare is a good idea, albeit something that needs to be reformed. And I do think the role of government should be more than most libertarians think it should be, but I do agree with them on social issues most of the time.
 
LOL that is funny. I guess if you are a Marxist then CNN, MSNBC, ABC and CBS are conservative compared to you so you might have a fair point from your perspective. But most rational people don't believe the media in the USA is conservative.
Not meant to be funny, I do have some Marxist leanings, Turtle.....have you ever studied his writings with an open mined?
Rational people ?
Now that funny!
Define rational!
In truth, I believe that FOX has the must influence.
Also, I feel that most tend to be conservative, its safer, more comfortable, its what has "gotten us here".
Liberalism is what propels us forward - into the dark and unknown for those without faith..
Even our President Barak Obama is conservative in many areas...Now Jerry Brown out in California, a most interesting character.
 
so its blacks and hispanics who violate our borders and immigration laws the most. that sounds like a RACIST claim to me.

I have done more than a few immigration cases-in front of two different federal circuits and it was ASIANs facing deportation in almost every case I handled.

well, we know from his stance on tax policy that he actually hates asians. could it be that he is using "blacks and hispanics" as code-words for "asians"?
 
Folks who are arguing for the compromise are arguing from a position of a false premise. Their premise is that the only way to contribute to society is to pay taxes.

with respect, that's not the premise at all; the center of the argument is (to simplify it) that with power, comes responsibility. if you are going to be making decisions about what the government shall do with the rest of us (and indeed, given our position, much of the world); then the consequences (for good or ill) should fall on you as well. if you want to have an expansive welfare state, fine, but you should be required to help pay for it if you are going to force others to do so as well. creating incentives for Americans to use the vote as a means to get free stuff from others using the coercive power of the state is bad for stability, bad for our economy, bad for democracy, and simple bad governance. so let us realign the incentive structure that surrounds the vote to give everyone who exercises it "skin in the game" as far as producing good governance at the cheapest price is concerned.
 
No, No , No. Every adult citizen who isn't a felon. Just like it is now.

Did you know that Professor Pamela Karlan-a brilliant far left activist started an effort backed by the DNC and the NAACP to give felons their rights to vote back. at the "Taft Lecture" at the U of Cincinnati Law school several years ago she noted that if all the felons in Florida could have voted (and turned out at the rates other citizens did) Gore would have easily won BECAUSE ALMOST ALL FELONS VOTE DEM when they can.

I (I attended College with Pam and knew her somewhat well-she was close friends and on some debate club with a roommate my Jr Year) asked her if she and the NAACP and DNC also supported allowing felons to have their second amendment rights restored after serving their time--I didn't get much of an answer on that one
 
I'm assuming alot of those felons are from urban area's, and most of them black, both high democratic voters so it's not a surprise it might have come out that way. But I think Gore won it anyway so ;)
 
Haymarket:

I'm assuming you missed this. Would you care to respond?

haymarket said:
It would proportionately impact those person in far greater percentages that it would White voters. That is the personification of a racist policy.


rightinnyc said:
Are you seriously arguing that any policy that would disproportionately impact minorities is a racist policy?
 
nope.
but this one is.
 
Did you know that Professor Pamela Karlan-a brilliant far left activist started an effort backed by the DNC and the NAACP to give felons their rights to vote back. at the "Taft Lecture" at the U of Cincinnati Law school several years ago she noted that if all the felons in Florida could have voted (and turned out at the rates other citizens did) Gore would have easily won BECAUSE ALMOST ALL FELONS VOTE DEM when they can.

I (I attended College with Pam and knew her somewhat well-she was close friends and on some debate club with a roommate my Jr Year) asked her if she and the NAACP and DNC also supported allowing felons to have their second amendment rights restored after serving their time--I didn't get much of an answer on that one

I personally believe that once you serve your time your debt to society is paid, your right to make a living shouldnt be hindered.
 
Everyone gets a voice, everyone gets a chance to have a say in how their government is shaped.

Everyone does not get a voice now. We have completely arbitrary limits on voting already.
 
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