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Would you vote for the compromise?

How would you vote on the compromise as described in the OP?

  • Total voters
    49
BTW turtle you are fogetting another group of people that has not been mentioned yet in this thread. Stay at home moms and dads. Why should thier right to vote be revoked just because they want to stay at home with thier kids and raise them while their spouse works?
 
hallam said:
I am not taking their rights away. I am discussing enhancing the voice in the government to those who support that government. If they want to vote support the government, it is as easy as that. There is no abuse here. It is just a limitation on voting rights just like we currently do.
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Sounds like another way for the right to buy votes to me;)

And another way to disclude the poor and try to strip them of their dignity.
 
Kali said:
Sounds like another way for the right to buy votes to me;)

And another way to disclude the poor and try to strip them of their dignity.
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Stripping them of their vote does achieve the goal of more right wing election victories. Make no mistake - that is what this is about in the end.
 
Kal'Stang said:
You want to talk of responsibility and yet you want to strip people of the right to vote? Seriously?
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sure why not-if they are parasites why not?
 
haymarket said:
Stripping them of their vote does achieve the goal of more right wing election victories. Make no mistake - that is what this is about in the end.
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and allowing the non-taxpayers to vote after buying their vote with the money of taxpayers is how Dems gain wealth and power

I am glad you concede that its net tax consumers who elect dems
 
TurtleDude said:
I find it just as lame to suggest that people who don't contribute income taxes have say in income tax rates

in either case its a question of responsibility
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Well lets just go about as lame as your suggestion and raise it to only those in politics have a right to vote!

Or how about only those that work for the I.R.S. have a right to have any say in income tax rates:2razz:
 
cpwill said:
post #138:
1. get rid of tax witholding and have tax day and election day on the same day. currently they are about as far apart in the year as they can get. this is not a coincidence.

2. allow those who qualify not to be net taxpayers two options: 1. they can either take the tax code with all of the holes, and options, and end up getting back more than they paid in (in which case they forgoe the franchise for that year) OR 2. they can simply pay the percent of their income that they owe, with no deductions, and then go vote. That way, even the poor are offered the option to exercise the franchise, so long as they prove willing to bear the costs of governance along with everyone else.

3. make this day a federal holiday so that the people can go about their business. it's already a shame that election day isn't; and surely tilts the scales away from those whose employment makes getting to the polls on time more difficult.

taxation and voting are therefore linked; both of them a of the patriotic duty of those citizens who choose to take part in running this great nation. those who wish to avoid the responsibility that comes with power, are free to do so.
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Ok, lets go through this...

1: So why do they have tax day and election day on different days of the year?

2: I'm assuming that the "franchise" you are talking about is voting? What kind of choice is that? Either pay money or you can't vote? Sounds like the old days when the states wanted to put up tests in order to deny blacks the right to vote to me. Only instead of it being educational required tests it now relies on how much money one makes. (which since it takes education to get the jobs that make the money required to pass the requirement to vote it equals to the same thing).

3: Just because it is a federal holiday does not mean that a company has to let thier workers have the day off. This would only constantly apply to those that work for the federal government, and they are the ones that normally make more than minimum wage.

Sorry but your suggestion is no better than turtles.
 
haymarket said:
We have fallen down the right wing rabbit hole and are fast approaching the bottom. And what is at the bottom for us? The Brave New World of folks like Turtle and Hallam where they intentionally come up with a fraudulent scheme to disenfranchise tens of millions of minority persons for the sole purpose of installing their own right wing allies in positions of political power.
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well i do think that forcing people to bear the consequences of their decisions causes them to become more conservative, that is correct. and i support measures that limit the franchise to those who A) seem best able to use it and B) have the actual courage of their convictions. if someone is willing to pay taxes in order to vote (see above) then i am right there with them.

People who support this sort of extremism should go to the Holocaust Memorial in Washington DC. One of the first rooms there is an exhibit of far right propaganda which was designed to set the stage for what was to come later. Right wing propaganda designed to teach that there was a difference in some citizens and others who were less than full citizens.
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not to restart the whole 'fascism' debate; but you do realize that this was part of a Eugenics program, and objectively a left wing phenomena?

That is what something like this scheme has as its motivation. Right wing extremists in this land have read the census projections and have read voting trends. They know that American is becoming less White and more minority. And what scares them to death is the knowledge that such persons tend to vote Democratic. So they are frightened that they will not be able to outvote their enemies in a decade or two. The answer to their problems - make sure they can't vote. Thus we get this inane net taxpayer bull and the idea that we are going to connect voting with paying of income taxes.
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:roll: really. and what were the American Citizens of 1812 scared to death of when they generally enforced similar provisions?





drama, much, haymarket?
 
Kali said:
Well lets just go about as lame as your suggestion and raise it to only those in politics have a right to vote!

Or how about only those that work for the I.R.S. have a right to have any say in income tax rates:2razz:
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that's really stupid. but I think you know that.
 
TurtleDude said:
and allowing the non-taxpayers to vote after buying their vote with the money of taxpayers is how Dems gain wealth and power

I am glad you concede that its net tax consumers who elect dems
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You are one obsessed dude. You get your butt kicked in this poll and you still cling to it like grim death.

from cpwill

drama, much, haymarket?
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Connect the dots and the picture is unmistakable. And it hardly qualifies as a comedy so dramatic it must be.... or a tragedy.

I thank my lucky stars that we still have a US Constitution and the extreme right wingers still have that to contend with.
 
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TurtleDude said:
sure why not-if they are parasites why not?
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Thank you for confirming just how you consider the working poor. Since I am one of those working poor I feel justifide in telling you to go F yourself, even if it does mean that I get banned from the thread or the forum. I'm done talking to you and your idiocy anyways.
 
haymarket said:
You are one obsessed dude. You get your butt kicked in this poll and you still cling to it like grim death.
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you confuse quantity with quality.

I couldn't care less how many people disagree with me. You seem to worry about about that. I sure don't. You engage in the flock mentality. 1000 bleating sheep don't matter to a lion
 
Kal'Stang said:
Thank you for confirming just how you consider the working poor. Since I am one of those working poor I feel justifide in telling you to go F yourself, even if it does mean that I get banned from the thread or the forum. I'm done talking to you and your idiocy anyways.
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LOL-sensitive you are. maybe if you spent more time working and less time whining on a chat board you might make a bit more money

just saying............

and if you get mad here you lose
 
TurtleDude said:
sure why not-if they are parasites why not?
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Well at least you finally admit that you wish to take away the rights of others. Are you sure you value our country and what it is about?

Who gets to decide if a person is a parasite? People like you? No Thanks. This country will not stand for this kind of thing dude:(
 
Kali said:
Well at least you finally admit that you wish to take away the rights of others. Are you sure you value our country and what it is about?

Who gets to decide if a person is a parasite? People like you? No Thanks. This country will not stand for this kind of thing dude:(
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I am not in favor of taking rights away. I am in favor of taxation for representation. the part of the country that actually pays taxes is getting sick of freeloaders.
 
Turtle ... how many times have you boasted or bragged about your income level to the others here? I cannot help but think about the high school jock who keeps telling everyone he needs a yardstick to measure his equipment but then a former girlfriend confesses that a six inch ruler is twice what is necessary. Anybody that has to hit everyone else over the head with the constant refrain of I AM RICH... I HAVE MORE MONEY THAN YOU DO .... I WAS BORN INTO WEALTH .... its either creepy or a tipoff to something being very very wrong here.
 
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haymarket said:
Turtle ... how many times have you boasted or bragged about your income level to the others here? I cannot help but think about the high school jock who keeps telling everyone he needs a yardstick to measure his equipment but then a former girlfriend confesses that a six inch ruler is twice what is necessary. Anybody that has to hit everyone else over the head with the constant refrain of I AM RICH... I HAVE MORE MONEY THAN YOU DO .... I WAS BORN INTO WEALTH .... its either creepy or a tipoff to something being very very wrong here.
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you seem rather upset haymarket. I don't advocate hurting anyone--its you and your ilk who want an already overgrown government to take more wealth from others. I like goring sacred cows. I hear lots of mooing from those who think others owe them a living.
 
Kali said:
It was said in jest and about as stupid as your ideas in this thread:)
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you confuse disagreement with stupid. its actually rather intelligent to limit voting to those who actually contribute to the system. or as my preference is =having a system where the many cannot vote up the taxes of the few. YOu seem unwilling to support my preference so that leaves the alternative.
 
But it is not Constitutional. It is not legal. It is not American.

And even then it is only "intelligent" if you define that word to mean taking away the right to vote from most of the people who vote for candidates you are ideologically opposed to so you can put your own right wing allies in charge.
 
Kal'Stang said:
1: So why do they have tax day and election day on different days of the year?
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the bit about coincidence was more of a throwaway line; but generally i would state that having these two dates on the opposite ends of the year serves to help seperate the effects of the second (in November) on the first (in April) in the people's minds. what we seek to do is to focus the minds of voters on the results of their decisions as they are making the most important one. in the market, this function is provided by cost; when you buy a television, you pay for it; money is taken from you. your mind is therefore focused on getting the best television possible for the least necessary cost. study after study demonstrates that when we purchase on debt (with plastic, or a payment plan), we tend to pay extra, and care less about getting the best item for the lowest cost. the market's relentless drive to improve is thus dulled. we should focus the American electorate on applying the same pressure to governance. by matching the date the bill is due with the date that the decision is made, we focus them on getting the best government possible for the least necessary cost.

2: I'm assuming that the "franchise" you are talking about is voting?
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yup.

Franchise Definition: 1. General: Right conferred or established by a government, such as the right to vote (exercise one's franchise) in a local or national election.

What kind of choice is that? Either pay money or you can't vote?
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no, it's pay your taxes; or, if you don't wish to bear the responsibility that comes with power (which is what the vote is - power to determine the course of the most powerful nation upon the planet), do not.

Sounds like the old days when the states wanted to put up tests in order to deny blacks the right to vote to me.
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then you need hearing aids. seriously, is the race card the best one you have to play here?

Only instead of it being educational required tests it now relies on how much money one makes.
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actually no, it doesn't; one can make any amount of income under this plan, and simply choose to forgoe the deductions that would keep one from being a net tax payer. you could be 18, earn $2,000 at a summer job, pay your 10% income tax on it, send in a check for 200 bucks, and then go vote.

3: Just because it is a federal holiday does not mean that a company has to let thier workers have the day off
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no, but that is the general movement. not a whole lot of companies work during Christmas except those that have to (Hospitals etc). ditto for thanksgiving, labor day, so on and so forth. irrespective, election day should be a federal holiday.
 
haymarket said:
But it is not Constitutional. It is not legal. It is not American.
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the Founding Fathers, respectfully disagreed. they themselves generally imposed property and tax qualifications upon the franchise.
 
Do those who support this stupid power grab realize that Turtle is intentionally redefining the very reality of what TAXES are in the first place and who pays TAXES in this country to justify what he wants to do? Wake up please. There are all kinds of taxes paid by almost everybody in this country. Get over yourself and your precious net taxpayer BS.
 
haymarket said:
But it is not Constitutional. It is not legal. It is not American.

And even then it is only "intelligent" if you define that word to mean taking away the right to vote from most of the people who vote for candidates you are ideologically opposed to so you can put your own right wing allies in charge.
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yes, yes and wrong. what is currently legal can change, the constitution changed to allow people to vote that the founders didn't want voting. But your claim its not American is a load of horsepoop. Its like claiming its not fair. its a term that has no merit
 
cpwill said:
the Founding Fathers, respectfully disagreed. they themselves generally imposed property and tax qualifications upon the franchise.
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Which was the product of an 18th century mindset. We corrected that in the first quarter of the 19th century. So it might be a good idea to at least get up to that point in time when you consider what is Constitutional, legal and American.
 
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