View Poll Results: How would you vote on the compromise as described in the OP?

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    4 6.90%
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Thread: Would you vote for the compromise?

  1. #261
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    But what the premise ignores is that everyone does have skin in the game. All people pay sales tax, for instance, and most people also pay property taxes. So the premise focuses on income tax but ignores other taxes, primarily consumption taxes, that the poor provide.
    1. the magic of witholding combined with tax 'returns' at the end of the year wipes out much of the natural connection between peoples' vote and their costs
    2. sales tax = state taxes. i would love to see the national government move to a Fairtax-esque system, mind you, but what we are talking about here is federal policy
    3. those who are least likely to be net tax payers (myself a year and more back, for example, i think this is the first year i will be a net taxpayer) are also those most likely to rent, and thus will be the demogaphic least likely to pay property taxes
    4. property taxes = local taxes and state taxes. see point #2
    5. the one you miss, but i'm not sure if it should be included, is the payroll tax, which is regressive and which all legal employees pay. now, nominally those are "contributions" to a particular program, but i think we all know that they are counted as part of the general revenue, and we might as well consider them as such.

    Also, the premise ignores tax breaks, especially to businesses, and corporate welfare provided to government contracts, especially no-bid contracts.
    i would love to see simplification of the tax code to limit deductions to child, education, and health. as i recall; in my plan those who wished to vote had to give up all tax breaks and deductions.

  2. #262
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You are falling into the same pattern, cpwill. There are other ways to contribute to society other than monetarily.
    agreed. i think we all would say that most cops probably contribute more to society than would be reflected by their pay, and ditto for enlisted members of our military, firemen, charity organizers, and so forth.

    but we aren't talking about 'contributing to society'; we are talking about "what shall our government do"; and the need there is to structure the decision-making so that those who will be determining that question are also those most likely to be seeking to make informed and responsible decisions. you are attempting (not on purpose, i think) a strawman diversion here.

  3. #263
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sorry but I could find no page 449. But the page number itself leads me to conclude that this is a massive report the size of a telephone book. And this is what you could find? Perhaps you could do the most simple and direct thing and sicne you know where your evidence is simply reproduce it in your next post?

    The leap of faith you mention would be the one you take in making the assumption that what applies to one applies to all. Which makes no difference in the end anyways as your ally Turtle has already concede the point.

    Turtle has already publicly admitted in his post #220 that his scheme would disenfranchise Democrats far more than it would Republicans. i said all along that this was NOT about taxes but was a Machiavellian plan to install the Republican party in power for the foreseeable future. And Turtle confirmed that.

    Case closed.
    only because dems are far more likely to be net tax consumers. the GOP caters to those who produce wealth, the dems cater to those who want it redistributed and those who pander to them.

    taxing the rich more is a scheme that buys the dems votes-which is why its the dems who are pushing for more taxes on people who already pay most of the taxes. some uber rich dems support it too-for reasons dealing with gaining power.



  4. #264
    Educator hallam's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Sorry but I could find no page 449. But the page number itself leads me to conclude that this is a massive report the size of a telephone book. And this is what you could find? Perhaps you could do the most simple and direct thing and sicne you know where your evidence is simply reproduce it in your next post?

    The leap of faith you mention would be the one you take in making the assumption that what applies to one applies to all. Which makes no difference in the end anyways as your ally Turtle has already concede the point.

    Turtle has already publicly admitted in his post #220 that his scheme would disenfranchise Democrats far more than it would Republicans. i said all along that this was NOT about taxes but was a Machiavellian plan to install the Republican party in power for the foreseeable future. And Turtle confirmed that.

    Case closed.
    You are not serious. In a 551 page document, you couldn't find page 449? Seriously?

  5. #265
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Please read this entire post before voting in the poll. If you vote before reading the entire post, know that you are an idiot.

    Turtledude thinks that you shouldn't be allowed to vote if you are not a net taxpayer (in other words, someone who pays more in taxes than they get back when they file their returns). He doesn't think it's fair that those who are not net taxpayers are permitted to vote for the politician who promises them the most goodies, since they're not feeling the bite of paying the taxes that fund those goodies.

    I completely disagree with his position, but this got me to thinking. What if someone were to propose the following compromise:





    And now, the question I put to all of you!

    If you were given the choice between voting FOR this compromise, or voting AGAINST this compromise, which would you choose?

    This is a simple yes/no, with the obligatory nonsense option. You can explain your vote after you cast it, but this thread is not for the discussion of any option other than the compromise as described above.
    The compromise is needlessly complicated. While I could agree with the sentiment of Turtledude, I think that it is best to accept as consequence of our system that everyone gets 1 vote regardless of social/economic standing. It's just a lot easier that way, and we have to think of the functionality of that which we want to establish.
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  6. #266
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    You are not serious. In a 551 page document, you couldn't find page 449? Seriously?
    just reproduce your evidence here and it will be examined... as if it mattered since it changes nothing.... Turtle has already conceded the main admission in this thread .... his scheme would impact Democrats the most and it is a blatant power grab aimed to destroy the democratic right of people to partake in their election of leaders by ruthlessly and arrogantly stacking the deck in favor of the Republican Party.

    That admission means more than every other post made here by you and other supporters. It is what I told you and it has come to pass as truth.

    the rest is pretty trivial.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-28-10 at 11:19 PM.
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  7. #267
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    just reproduce your evidence here and it will be examined... as if it mattered .... Turtle has already conceded the main admission in this thread .... his scheme would impact Democrats the most and it is a blatant power grab aimed to destroy the democratic right of people to partake in their election of leaders by ruthlessly and arrogantly stacking the deck in favor of the Republican Party.

    That admission means more than every other post made here by you and other supporters. It is what I told you and it has come to pass as truth.

    the rest is pretty trivial.
    what I conceded is that those who suckle on the public teat the most are dem voters. YOu act as if its a big secret that I don't have much use for the policies of the dems when it comes to taxes and economic policies and I want to see them lose elections. I want Obama to be a one term president.

    You conceded that those who are most likely to be net tax consumers are dem voters.



  8. #268
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what I conceded is that those who suckle on the public teat the most are dem voters. YOu act as if its a big secret that I don't have much use for the policies of the dems when it comes to taxes and economic policies and I want to see them lose elections. I want Obama to be a one term president.

    You conceded that those who are most likely to be net tax consumers are dem voters.
    Since the entire concept of "net tax consumers" is pure BS of the worst odor invented by right wing extremists to further the plan to disenfranchise tens of millions of their opposition, it matters not to me what label you place upon it as it means nothing to me of the pejorative nature that it means to you.

    All that matters is that you and the extreme right wing have concocted this absurd classification as a weapon to use against the right of the people to vote as citizens in a representative democracy.

    You should be ashamed. But at least you have been exposed for all to see what your true motives are.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-28-10 at 11:23 PM.
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  9. #269
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Since the entire concept of "net tax consumers" is pure BS of the worst odor invented by right wing extremists to further the plan to disenfranchise tens of millions of their opposition, it matters not to me what label you place upon it as it means nothing to me of the pejorative nature that it means to you.

    All that matters is that you and the extreme right wing have concocted this absurd classification as a weapon to use against the right of the people to vote as citizens in a representative democracy.

    You should be ashamed. But at least you have been exposed for all to see what your true motives are.
    more drama queen nonsense. "extreme right wing" means anyone who doesn't buy into the "from each according to their ability crap"?

    When you libs support a tax method that prevents the many from being bought with the wealth of the most taxed group then you won't ever hear me suggesting that those who don't pay shouldn't play. but right now you think its fine for say 51% of the country to vote for those who promise them the wealth of the other 49%.



  10. #270
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    more drama queen nonsense. "extreme right wing" means anyone who doesn't buy into the "from each according to their ability crap"?

    When you libs support a tax method that prevents the many from being bought with the wealth of the most taxed group then you won't ever hear me suggesting that those who don't pay shouldn't play. but right now you think its fine for say 51% of the country to vote for those who promise them the wealth of the other 49%.
    In this case "extreme right wing" refers to folks like you who invent crap categories in a blatant attempt to destroy the right to vote of millions of American citizens.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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