View Poll Results: How would you vote on the compromise as described in the OP?

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Thread: Would you vote for the compromise?

  1. #201
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    I am not taking their rights away. I am discussing enhancing the voice in the government to those who support that government. If they want to vote support the government, it is as easy as that. There is no abuse here. It is just a limitation on voting rights just like we currently do.
    This is an excellent statement that is all propaganda and no substance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #202
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    I'm against the compromised proposed.

    But I don't see it as being horribly wrong - it's not like our individual votes are tallied for a net election result - we have the the electoral college that votes on our behalf and only in good faith votes with the majority.

    And then we have various votes that aren't counted at all when they should be.

    But I think the compromise would also de-personalize the vote-system and make it take even longer ot vote.
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Folks who are arguing for the compromise are arguing from a position of a false premise. Their premise is that the only way to contribute to society is to pay taxes. Arguing with any of them on any of the details is pointless. Their position is illogical and a failure from the start. Arguing on the details give their position credibility... which it has none. Try to keep that in mind.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 11-27-10 at 02:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #204
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Incomes under $15k: 73-25 Obama
    Incomes $15-30k: 60-37 Obama
    Incomes $30-50k: 55-43 Obama

    I would wager that those 47% are disproportionately democrats.

    Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com
    Since your evidence is based on "exit polls", it wouldn't include many servicemembers (which generally vote conservative and absentee ballot). It also wouldn't include people who didn't vote in that election. Many of those would be part of that 47% too.
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  5. #205
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Since your evidence is based on "exit polls", it wouldn't include many servicemembers (which generally vote conservative and absentee ballot). It also wouldn't include people who didn't vote in that election. Many of those would be part of that 47% too.
    What percentage of voters are active servicemembers voting by absentee ballot? 0.5%? 0.2%?

    Do you have any reason to believe that non-voters are disproportionately likely to be poor and conservative?

    Is there any reason to believe that those two factors combined would be anywhere near enough to outweigh the drastically disproportionate figures that I presented?

    I'm open to any additional evidence that challenges my conclusions.
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  6. #206
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Folks who are arguing for the compromise are arguing from a position of a false premise. Their premise is that the only way to contribute to society is to pay taxes. Arguing with any of them on any of the details is pointless. Their position is illogical and a failure from the start. Arguing on the details give their position credibility... which it has none. Try to keep that in mind.
    Income taxes, none the less.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Are you seriously arguing that any policy that would disproportionately impact minorities is a racist policy?
    The application of this scheme would greatly cut both African American voters and Hispanic voters off the roles in far greater percentages than anyone else. When you look at the people on a national level who advocate such a thing and have written about the "47% problem" they tend to be the most right wing on almost any racial issue.

    from Wikipedia

    Race

    personal and household incomein the United States Census in 2005


    Percent of households with six figure incomes and individuals with incomes in the top 10%, exceeding $77,500.
    Despite advances minorities have made to exit poverty and with many Black Americans and Latino Americans joining the middle class, there is still an uneven racial distribution among the income quintiles. While White Americans made up roughly 75.1% of all persons in 2000,[17] 87.93% of all households in the top 5% were headed by a person who identified as being White alone. Only 4.75% of all household in the top 5% were headed by someone who identified him or herself as being Hispanic or Latino of any race,[18] versus 12.5% of persons identifying themselves as Hispanic or Latino in the general population.[17] Overall, 86.01% of all households in the top two quintiles with upper-middle range incomes of over $55,331 were headed by a head of household who identified him or herself as White alone, while only 7.21% were being headed by someone who identified as being Hispanic and 7.37% by someone who identified as being African American or Black.[18] Overall, households headed by Hispanics and African Americans or Blacks were underrepresented in the top two quintiles and overrepresented in the bottom two quintiles. Households headed by persons who identified as being Asian alone, on the other hand, were overrepresented among the top two quintiles. In the top five percent the percentage of Asians was nearly twice as high as the percentage of Asians among the general population. Whites were relatively even distributed throughout the quintiles only being underrepresented in the lowest quintile and slightly overrepresented in the top quintile and the top five percent.[18]
    Now apply the Turtle scheme to these numbers. Then apply the figures that RightinNYC gave regarding income and voting tendencies.
    Incomes under $15k: 73-25 Obama
    Incomes $15-30k: 60-37 Obama
    Incomes $30-50k: 55-43 Obama

    I would wager that those 47% are disproportionately democrats.

    The result is undeniable and clear.


    In this case, such a scheme to deny millions of people the vote, is primarily motived by a desire to keep the Republican party in power by denying its enemies their most reliable voting blocs.

    If it walks like a duck.... you know the rest.

    from Turtle

    so its blacks and hispanics who violate our borders and immigration laws the most. that sounds like a RACIST claim to me.
    much like the famous line from Indiana Jones, you really do make it up as you go along. Utter poppycock.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-27-10 at 08:06 AM.
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  8. #208
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Well, this entire thread is flawed because of two things:

    1) You are all talking about net income tax contributors and net income tax consumers. Nothing is mentioned about property taxes, sales taxes, and other taxes that, as a group, the poor pay. Therefore, if a poor person loses the right to vote because they don't pay a net income tax, then I think they also shouldn't have to pay any of those taxes either. Rather, they should be given a card noting their sales tax exemption that they can produce whenever they purchase a product. So if someone doesn't get any vote at all, they shouldn't have to pay any taxes at all.

    2) While Democrats may vote for politicians who use tax money for social welfare, Republicans may vote for politicians who use tax money for corporate welfare. After all, Republicans support the defense industry and farm subsidies. Therefore, any owner of a stock in a company who receives a tax break or a government contract should be disallowed to vote as well. If the poor can't benefit from government programs that give them money, then businesses can't benefit from government programs that give them money.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #209
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Folks who are arguing for the compromise are arguing from a position of a false premise. Their premise is that the only way to contribute to society is to pay taxes. Arguing with any of them on any of the details is pointless. Their position is illogical and a failure from the start. Arguing on the details give their position credibility... which it has none. Try to keep that in mind.
    You again fail to actually represent my position. I have never said that there are no other ways to support the government. I have said that this is a legitimate way to define support and that we can discuss this compromise with this definition. You have still failed to show why this compromise is wrong since the government currently arbitrarily sets voting limitations. Plus you can't claim fascism by correlation alone of one policy.

    /sarcasm....The German set voting limitations......oh no anyone who does limits voting become a Nazis.

    You have no counter argument that is why you appeal to this. You can only claim correlation and have failed at ever level to describe why this is wrong. No, you entire argument is based off emotion or else you would have come with more meat. You accept current voting limitations currently. You accept limitation on prisoners and age which are completely arbitrary. Therefore, I can only rationally conclude that you are way you say. If anyone who limits voting rights are fascist, then we are all fascist, including you, because the US government currently limits voting rights of its citizens.

    You have producing nothing but fallacies here. You have even talked bad about yourself. I would call you a Nazi too but Godwin's law is not an appropriate response to any conversation.
    Last edited by hallam; 11-27-10 at 08:31 AM.

  10. #210
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    Re: Would you vote for the compromise?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so people are RACISTS for not wanting the children of illegals who come here in violation of our laws to be citizens?

    when liberals start using the term "racist" it pretty much means they are out of intelligent arguments.
    It seems this is true when the claim fascism as well.

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