View Poll Results: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery?

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  • Yes

    22 78.57%
  • No

    2 7.14%
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    3 10.71%
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    2 7.14%
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Thread: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

  1. #151
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Are we still going to have this issue 500 years from now?
    Who knows. At the rate in which 'Conservatives' take to actually understand the sociological effects of slavery, we'll probably be talking about this for 1000 years. I don't blame them. Acknowledging that America enslaved a people both socially and economically would mean we're not the shinning city on the hill that their Messiah Reagan spoke about. If anything we're more like a house with a lot of hidden secrets some people simply refuse to deal with.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #152
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You can consider it as absurd as you want. The evidence does not lie. Pre-WWII, business men, politicians running for election and even those in power routinely accuse Jews of being in the same bunch as communists, pro-unionists etc. Post-WWII, those feelings disappear. The difference is made up by white guilt over the events of the Holocaust.
    I'm not denying that white Gentile attitudes toward Jews changed, I'm denying that but for that attitude change, Jews would be in the same situation as blacks right now. I don't think there's even a tiny bit of evidence that would suggest that that would be the case.

    This is a fact but only after they experienced the same period of discrimination that every other group that immigrated experienced. Once this period was over (usually within 1-2 generations), Asians were allowed to prosper. Blacks are the only group who were not allowed the benefit of creating an economic culture. For evidence look at the West Coast. The West Coast is a perfect example of the extent to which racist laws affected some immigrants and not others. 30 years ago, Mexicans in California did not have an economic culture up until the 80s. After experiencing 1 generation of discrimination, they have now begun amassing wealth and creating 'Mexican owned-Mexican run' businesses. This would support the assertion that the reason black America has been unable to prosper is the fact that it has ingrained, within its social consciousness, the idea that it is not meant to create wealth for itself.
    Can you explain exactly how these "racist laws" prevented blacks from doing things that asians or hispanics were able to do?

    As you yourself claim, hispanics were unable to have an "economic culture" until the 1980's in Cali. Now, you claim they're successful. When were blacks permitted to develop an economic culture?

    I think you mean the Japanese, Asians as a whole were not denied business rights or wealth accumulation. A single period of extreme discrimination where the Japanese, were denied rights for a period lasting less than 10 years is not even remotely comparable to the systematic abuse of rights and denial of wealth that blacks in the U.S. experienced.
    Yes, I was using shorthand to refer to the collective discrimination that they all faced. Regardless, are you really arguing that it's easier to recover in today's society from genocide or internment in the 1940's than it is to recover from slavery in the 1860's?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #153
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Who knows. At the rate in which 'Conservatives' take to actually understand the sociological effects of slavery, we'll probably be talking about this for 1000 years. I don't blame them. Acknowledging that America enslaved a people both socially and economically would mean we're not the shinning city on the hill that their Messiah Reagan spoke about. If anything we're more like a house with a lot of hidden secrets some people simply refuse to deal with.
    I'm pretty sure we recognized it when the republican Abe Lincoln did little things like, what say, fight to end slavery. Yeah, white people never fought to end slavery. Perhaps you also think 25 million slaves died because of slavery, too? I hear that numerous times from certain "non-racist" black men.

  4. #154
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm not denying that white Gentile attitudes toward Jews changed, I'm denying that but for that attitude change, Jews would be in the same situation as blacks right now. I don't think there's even a tiny bit of evidence that would suggest that that would be the case.
    Really? Well, I can show you pictures of the ghettos Jews were segregated to for part of the 19th century. I can also show you evidence pointing to a chance on policies towards Jews right after WWII. I can even show the change in how politicians spoke of Jews pre and then post WWII. I mean if that doesn't truly convince you then I don't know what to tell you. I never said they'd be in the same situation. I said there was a chance in attitudes towards Jews and that their relative positions are a result of how whites have perceived them. Maybe I misunderstood you point but I don't think I stated that or argued that.

    Can you explain exactly how these "racist laws" prevented blacks from doing things that asians or hispanics were able to do?
    Well the West Coast really had little choice in terms of how it would approach minorities living in its coasts. The policies of denying wealth to minorities would essentially bankrupt the area if it kept them up for more than 1-2 generations. As opposed to the South and North where the biggest non-white group is blacks, California, always a progressive state, needed to implement laws which would accommodate the many immigrant groups that started accumulating within it.

    As you yourself claim, hispanics were unable to have an "economic culture" until the 1980's in Cali. Now, you claim they're successful. When were blacks permitted to develop an economic culture?
    No. I claim they've started to amass wealth. Not that they're successful.

    Yes, I was using shorthand to refer to the collective discrimination that they all faced. Regardless, are you really arguing that it's easier to recover in today's society from genocide or internment in the 1940's than it is to recover from slavery in the 1860's?
    Considering that these groups(Jews and the Japanese) were not continually harassed, discriminated against and pushed down by the government 100 years after internment camps and genocide? Yes. I would most certainly argue that it was infinitely easier for them to recover. No cyclical poverty was created, no denial of wealth was put in place.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  5. #155
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Really? Well, I can show you pictures of the ghettos Jews were segregated to for part of the 19th century. I can also show you evidence pointing to a chance on policies towards Jews right after WWII. I can even show the change in how politicians spoke of Jews pre and then post WWII. I mean if that doesn't truly convince you then I don't know what to tell you. I never said they'd be in the same situation. I said there was a chance in attitudes towards Jews and that their relative positions are a result of how whites have perceived them. Maybe I misunderstood you point but I don't think I stated that or argued that.
    I'm not denying that Jews were treated differently before and after WWII. I'm denying that the reason why jews and blacks are in their relative positions in today's society is because white gentiles felt guilty about what happened to the jews but not guilty about what happened to the blacks. If that's not what you were arguing, I apologize.

    Well the West Coast really had little choice in terms of how it would approach minorities living in its coasts. The policies of denying wealth to minorities would essentially bankrupt the area if it kept them up for more than 1-2 generations. As opposed to the South and North where the biggest non-white group is blacks, California, always a progressive state, needed to implement laws which would accommodate the many immigrant groups that started accumulating within it.
    Even assuming this is true, there are millions of blacks living in California. If CA was forced to enact policies that allowed minority groups to accumulate wealth, why would the policies benefit asians and hispanics but not blacks?

    No. I claim they've started to amass wealth. Not that they're successful.
    When would you say that blacks were permitted to develop an economic culture? How would you describe their success so far, compared to hispanics or asians?

    Considering that these groups(Jews and the Japanese) were not continually harassed, discriminated against and pushed down by the government 100 years after internment camps and genocide? Yes. I would most certainly argue that it was infinitely easier for them to recover. No cyclical poverty was created, no denial of wealth was put in place.
    They were interned and exterminated in the 1940's. That was 80 years after the last time that blacks were subjected to anything that could be considered even remotely comparable. As you yourself have noted, those groups were also subject to the same discrimination and mistreatment until recent years.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  6. #156
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    That is funny because if you listen to the whinning that goes on about slavery, in the US, you would think it only happened in the US.

    Why don't you hear the same from blacks (or any other group that was enslaved) in England or anywhere else for that matter?
    The same issues to an extent exist within Europe as well where there was a strong history of slavery. The difference being in US, one can try to assimilate alot more successfully as it is not based on racial identity. From my experience, 'European' is sometimes synonymous with 'White' and one cannot fit in unless they are White. There are areas of Europe, you just should not go

    US is unique in that Whites systematically oppressed Blacks in such close quarters for hundreds of years. In UK, one wasn't allow to keep slaves on the land of Britain but ofc the loop hole was that you could sell them so we don't have the historical baggage.


  7. #157
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Who knows. Acknowledging that America enslaved a people both socially and economically would mean we're not the shinning city on the hill that their Messiah Reagan spoke about. If anything we're more like a house with a lot of hidden secrets some people simply refuse to deal with.
    Refuse to deal with huh? We've ended slavery, Passed amendments to the constitution legally protecting the citizenship and voting rights of former slaves, passed the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. The SCOTUS has outlawed segregation. We've provided Affirmative Action legislation to insure equal hiring practices and scholarship opportunities, provided racial quotas to insure the same. We've funded Black colleges, music and art institutions, devoted a month to Black History, and have written African-American culture into EVERY aspect of our public school curriculae. African-Americans have held key positions in ALL branches of the Federal Government and the highest Command positions in the US military. The highest executive office in the nation is now held by an African-American. We have more Black CEO's and successful Black entrpreneurs than ever before. There are Black professors in predominately white colleges, Black principals of predominately white public schools, and Black chief surgeons of hospitals. Blacks have coached and are coaching NFL, NBA, and Major League Baseball teams.

    So, please Hatuey, elaborate on exactly how we, as a nation are "REFUSING to deal with it"?

    This "Marcus Garvey-Black Empowerment" schtick that you've adopted is just a bit outdated
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 11-27-10 at 05:38 PM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  8. #158
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Refuse to deal with huh? We've ended slavery, Passed amendments to the constitution legally protecting the citizenship and voting rights of former slaves, passed the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. The SCOTUS has outlawed segregation. We've provided Affirmative Action legislation to insure equal hiring practices and scholarship opportunities, provided racial quotas to insure the same. We've funded Black colleges, music and art institutions, devoted a month to Black History, and have written African-American culture into EVERY aspect of our public school curriculae. African-Americans have held key positions in ALL branches of the Federal Government and the highest Command positions in the US military. The highest executive office in the nation is now held by an African-American. We have more Black CEO's and successful Black entrpreneurs than ever before. There are Black professors in predominately white colleges, Black principals of predominately white public schools, and Black chief surgeons of hospitals. Blacks have coached and are coaching NFL, NBA, and Major League Baseball teams.

    So, please Hatuey, elaborate on exactly how we, as a nation are "REFUSING to deal with it"?
    Apparently, other black people and slavery apologists cannot understand.

  9. #159
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Where do you get the idea that the bell can't be unrung to some degree? Why not try? Come on, I'll find you a great 1BR in the South Bronx. Stop being such a racist.
    People moving back in is not going to magically create wealth or reverse the various problems that have resulted.

    There are plenty of neighborhoods that are >90% Chinese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Italian, Jewish, etc. The concept of an ethnic enclave is not exclusive to the blacks.
    Ethnic enclaves often form naturally for a variety of reasons. Those neighborhoods are dominated by a specific ethnic group due to something other than white flight.

    So lets at least make an attempt to fix that. Shoot me an email and I'll set you up with my real estate broker.
    Were I actually living anywhere near New York City it would still mean nothing. You are not going to improve the situation of the black community by getting white people to move back.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  10. #160
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Probably not.

    I understand that slavery existed legally in the USA until the 1860s.

    I understand that slavery still exists to some extent in the world...

    I understand that until the 1960-1970's, black persons were repressed (with the aid of laws, sometimes) to varying degrees depending on what area they lived in...

    Is that what the OP is talking about?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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