View Poll Results: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery?

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Thread: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

  1. #141
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Excuses, excuses.

    I wonder why brown skinned people in the rest of the Western world were able to recover and move on.
    That is funny because if you listen to the whinning that goes on about slavery, in the US, you would think it only happened in the US.

    Why don't you hear the same from blacks (or any other group that was enslaved) in England or anywhere else for that matter?

  2. #142
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Thanks. Fact of the matter is that, at this time in history, everyone was enslaving people. It was common practice not only in the west, but all over the globe. Africans enslaved other Africans and we don't even want to get started about what went on in the mideast 'round those days.

    Slavery is bad. Some of the world has learned this (democracies), all of it has been guilty.

    I don't have a problem singling out American (or, more accurately, US) slavery for discussion, but to pretend it was in any way unique is absurd - it existed everywhere then, mostly in the form of dictatorial regimes.


    Before we de-cry US slavery, let us have some historical context.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 11-27-10 at 07:24 AM.

  3. #143
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Before we de-cry US slavery, let us have some historical context.
    But...but....but...that would let the wind out of the bag!

    How dare you bring relevant facts to this thread!













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  4. #144
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So the reason why Jews and blacks are in their relative positions in society is because white Gentiles feel bad about what the Germans did but don't care about what happened to the blacks?
    Yes. Essentially. Look at American attitudes towards Jews pre-WWII and then post WWII. It's a world of difference. Whereas in the 1910s and 20s you have politicians, business men and common everyday Americans blaming Jews for their problems, by the end of the 1940s it becomes simply taboo. The difference comes during WWII. As opposed to blacks who essentially had to beg the government for rights even though, you know, their oppression has been around for well over 300 years. White America is incredibly hypocritical about who it chooses to be sorry to and how it chooses to be sorry.

    You're saying that the white Gentiles don't feel bad about how the Chinese in San Fran were treated, yet you go on to acknowledge that the Chinese have achieved great success in society. How did they manage to do that without the sympathy of the white Gentiles? Can you explain exactly how the Chinese "got" Harvard while the blacks got nothing? Last I checked, the blacks received the largest boost when applying to schools while asians are actually penalized. Seems incongruous.
    They were allowed to own businesses, earn credit, create and amass wealth as a result this meant they could then go to better schools, get more recognition etc. Have you been reading the thread? The point I was trying to make was that while every single group in American history was given centuries to create an economic culture, blacks have only had about 40 years to 'create' such a culture. All this bull**** about how AA should have made it better is fallacious. Even any talk of blacks being better off without AA is ridiculous. It's like beating a dog for a week, putting a bandaid on it and then telling it to get up and walk. Or in the other case, telling it to get up and walk. The dog is simply not going to get too far.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-27-10 at 12:18 PM.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    slavery for discussion, but to pretend it was in any way unique is absurd
    American slavery was unique in that the discrimination that came as a result continued after it had been abolished and even after blacks were supposedly granted citizenship.

    Before we de-cry US slavery, let us have some historical context.
    What about it? Everybody else did it does not provide any kind of historical context for American slavery. Brazilian slavery and slavery in Africa were all completely different from one another. Their context might be slavery, but that doesn't mean much. They all had differences. In Brazil for example, to lose a slave was actually cheaper than to feed one. This is why quilombos were allowed to exist for so long. It was also the reason Brazilian colonials who owned slaves weren't really all that bothered when slavery was abolished. Though a lot of them lost fortunes, the remote nature of Brazilian engeiros made it so that there were no other jobs around other than plantation work. It was huge profits at the expense of a cheap working class regardless.

    In America, slavery was the opposite. It was incredibly expensive to replace slaves so any talk of abolishing it was out of the question for some. Slavery was not the same everywhere nor did it have the same effects everywhere. I would say in Brazil slavery had worse repercussions than in North America as today black Brazilians make up the majority of the poor in Brazil. In Cuba however, slavery had the effect of moving blacks away from sugarcane production and into the cities.

    Your 'everybody did it' excuse is simply ridiculous.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #146
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Yes, if only white people had been forced to continue living there, things would have been just peachy keen. Come to think of it, we should try to fix that by sending white people back into those neighborhoods now. You thinking about moving any time soon? I can find you a great apt in Brownsville or East Flatbush for cheap.

    Oh, wait, that won't work. Whenever white people start moving back to those areas now, the people in that area start bitching about how gentrification is ruining the neighborhood and how the white people are driving up rent and forcing the poor minorities out. You're a racist if you do, and a racist if you don't.
    What you are talking about is unringing the bell, which you cannot do. However, without question it was the reason for many of these areas becoming impoverished and dilapidated. If people had been a little less racist then perhaps black people would be better off.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You're saying that the white Gentiles don't feel bad about how the Chinese in San Fran were treated, yet you go on to acknowledge that the Chinese have achieved great success in society. How did they manage to do that without the sympathy of the white Gentiles?



    Can you explain exactly how the Chinese "got" Harvard while the blacks got nothing? Last I checked, the blacks received the largest boost when applying to schools while asians are actually penalized. Seems incongruous.
    Well, for one, people did not abandon a neighborhood every time a Chinaman moved in next door. Attitudes towards Chinese people were hardly gracious, but neither were they so intolerant as to prohibit Chinese people form succeeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So if there are no white people, a place becomes a ghetto?
    It is about who has the money. The black people did not have the money due in large part to slavery and so they needed people with money, the white people, to help earn a living. When the white people fled it left a lot of black people without enough income to have a decent life.
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  7. #147
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes. Essentially. Look at American attitudes towards Jews pre-WWII and then post WWII. It's a world of difference. Whereas in the 1910s and 20s you have politicians, business men and common everyday Americans blaming Jews for their problems, by the end of the 1940s it becomes simply taboo. The difference comes during WWII. As opposed to blacks who essentially had to beg the government for rights even though, you know, their oppression has been around for well over 300 years. White America is incredibly hypocritical about who it chooses to be sorry to and how it chooses to be sorry
    .

    I just think it's patently absurd to argue that white gentile guilt or the lack thereof is the reason why blacks and jews are where they are today. I don't really know how to rebut that with specifics, so I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.

    They were allowed to own businesses, earn credit, create and amass wealth as a result this meant they could then go to better schools, get more recognition etc. Have you been reading the thread? The point I was trying to make was that while every single group in American history was given centuries to create an economic culture, blacks have only had about 40 years to 'create' such a culture. All this bull**** about how AA should have made it better is fallacious. Even any talk of blacks being better off without AA is ridiculous. It's like beating a dog for a week, putting a bandaid on it and then telling it to get up and walk. Or in the other case, telling it to get up and walk. The dog is simply not going to get too far.
    So you're saying that while blacks were being denied the right to start businesses, Asians were allowed to prosper in this country? Yea, I forgot about all the blacks that were interned during WWII or all the laws against black ownership of businesses in the 20th century. Why, Asians were practically treated like Jews!
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #148
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    What you are talking about is unringing the bell, which you cannot do. However, without question it was the reason for many of these areas becoming impoverished and dilapidated. If people had been a little less racist then perhaps black people would be better off.
    Where do you get the idea that the bell can't be unrung to some degree? Why not try? Come on, I'll find you a great 1BR in the South Bronx. Stop being such a racist.

    Well, for one, people did not abandon a neighborhood every time a Chinaman moved in next door. Attitudes towards Chinese people were hardly gracious, but neither were they so intolerant as to prohibit Chinese people form succeeding.
    There are plenty of neighborhoods that are >90% Chinese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Italian, Jewish, etc. The concept of an ethnic enclave is not exclusive to the blacks.

    It is about who has the money. The black people did not have the money due in large part to slavery and so they needed people with money, the white people, to help earn a living. When the white people fled it left a lot of black people without enough income to have a decent life.
    So lets at least make an attempt to fix that. Shoot me an email and I'll set you up with my real estate broker.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 11-27-10 at 02:42 PM.
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  9. #149
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    . I just think it's patently absurd to argue that white gentile guilt or the lack thereof is the reason why blacks and jews are where they are today. I don't really know how to rebut that with specifics, so I guess we'll just have to leave it at that.
    You can consider it as absurd as you want. The evidence does not lie. Pre-WWII, business men, politicians running for election and even those in power routinely accuse Jews of being in the same bunch as communists, pro-unionists etc. Post-WWII, those feelings disappear. The difference is made up by white guilt over the events of the Holocaust.

    So you're saying that while blacks were being denied the right to start businesses, Asians were allowed to prosper in this country?
    This is a fact but only after they experienced the same period of discrimination that every other group that immigrated experienced. Once this period was over (usually within 1-2 generations), Asians were allowed to prosper. Blacks are the only group who were not allowed the benefit of creating an economic culture. For evidence look at the West Coast. The West Coast is a perfect example of the extent to which racist laws affected some immigrants and not others. Mexicans in California did not have an economic culture up until the 80s. After experiencing 1 generation of discrimination, they have now begun amassing wealth and creating 'Mexican owned-Mexican run' businesses, with the same backlash which other groups experienced. This would support the assertion that the reason black America has been unable to prosper is the fact that it has ingrained, within its social consciousness, the idea that it is not meant to create wealth for itself.

    Yea, I forgot about all the blacks that were interned during WWII or all the laws against black ownership of businesses in the 20th century. Why, Asians were practically treated like Jews!
    I think you mean the Japanese, Asians as a whole were not denied business rights or wealth accumulation during the 1940s. A single period of extreme discrimination where the Japanese, were denied rights for a period lasting less than 10 years is not even remotely comparable to the systematic abuse of rights and denial of wealth that blacks in the U.S. experienced. If anything, it's a red herring.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-27-10 at 03:54 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #150
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    Re: Do You Understand Repression & After Effects of Slavery

    Are we still going to have this issue 500 years from now? Will we keep hearing that the "white man is keeping us down"? "That everything is the white man's fault"? That we'd... never forgive, never move on? Do you think we might then?

    ...

    Why not now?

    Me, I don't care what happened over 200 years ago. I can't hold on to hate and vengeance. Being conservative, I save money, work hard, take responsibility, and deal wisely with my time and money.

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