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lighter sentence because the lady was fat

do you agree with this ruling

  • Total voters
    17
liblady said:
no, it does not. you could argue the same thing if a person was hit by a car, thought they were okay, didn't see a doctor and later died of internal injuries. the person driving the car would still be culpable, as he caused the injury in the first place.
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Depends on the circumstances. If the victim's actions (e.g. not seeking medical attention) were to blame, then it's doubtful that the driver could be successfully prosecuted for the death. If the victim would have died anyway from the internal injuries, then the driver probably could be.

It's difficult to prosecute someone for that sort of thing when the blame is shared, or when their actions only indirectly contributed to a person's death. Obviously we can't start playing Seven-Steps-To-Kevin-Bacon with wrongful death prosecutions. Just about EVERYONE has done something that has probably contributed to someone else's death...usually without even knowing it.
 
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Kandahar said:
Depends on the circumstances. If the victim's actions (e.g. not seeking medical attention) were to blame, then it's doubtful that the driver could be successfully prosecuted for the death. If the victim would have died anyway from the internal injuries, then the driver probably could be.

It's difficult to prosecute someone for that sort of thing when the blame is shared, or when their actions only indirectly contributed to a person's death. Obviously we can't start playing Seven-Steps-To-Kevin-Bacon with wrongful death prosecutions. Just about EVERYONE has done something that has probably contributed to someone else's death...usually without even knowing it.
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the woman died as a result of being hit by the car, didn't she? if she hadn't been hit, she wouldn't have died, right? i think it's that simple. there could be all kinds of extenuating circumstances, but does that make him any less responsible?
 
liblady said:
the woman died as a result of being hit by the car, didn't she? if she hadn't been hit, she wouldn't have died, right? i think it's that simple. there could be all kinds of extenuating circumstances, but does that make him any less responsible?
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if she hadn't been so fat, she wouldn't have died. by all accounts, her injuries were survivable had she gotten to a hospital in time.

what if instead of being fat, she'd had a bomb in her car and the accident caused it to go off killing her. would the guy who hit her be responsible?

courts take extenuating circumstances into account for a reason. no two cases are exactly the same. do you really want cookie cutter justice for every crime?
 
liblady said:
imo it does not. her death was a consequence of his actions. again, i don't think he should spend life in prision, but i'm not sure the sentence was appropriate.
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her death was also a consequence of her own actions. if she hadn't allowed herself to get so heavy that emergency responders couldn't lift her into an ambulance she would have gotten treatment hours earlier that would have, by all accounts, saved her life.
 
I think the punishment is adequate. He caused the accident, but it's not his fault she was so fat it took the paramedics 4 hours to get her to a hospital. Which I find in and of itself rather odd. As far as I'm concerned they share part of the blame for her death.
 
Arcana XV said:
I think the punishment is adequate. He caused the accident, but it's not his fault she was so fat it took the paramedics 4 hours to get her to a hospital. Which I find in and of itself rather odd. As far as I'm concerned they share part of the blame for her death.
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I think that it wasn't that they didn't have an ambulance or helicopter big enough to carry her, she was just too damn heavy for them to lift her to get her into the ambulance. I played football in HS with a guy who was so big that when he blew out a knee, they had to get a truck equipped with a "tommy lift" to get him off the field. most ambulance companies are not equipped with cranes, forklifts or other heavylift equipment.
 
OscarB63 said:
I think that it wasn't that they didn't have an ambulance or helicopter big enough to carry her, she was just too damn heavy for them to lift her to get her into the ambulance. I played football in HS with a guy who was so big that when he blew out a knee, they had to get a truck equipped with a "tommy lift" to get him off the field. most ambulance companies are not equipped with cranes, forklifts or other heavylift equipment.
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Right, but the fire department usually can handle such situations. Why didn't they call them for assistance? I don't know about Scotland, but here it's very common to see a fire truck at the site of an accident. They get there pretty quick too.
 
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from Ambulance Photos - - Ambulances, EMU, Doctors, Organ Transport, all medical vehicles! (who'd a thunk?).

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Those scottish ambulances are pretty damn small... How do they fit all the life-saving/monitering equipment in the back along with a normal sized patient and a couple paramedics, let alone with a 400-pounder?

:confused: I don't understand Europe.
 
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Arcana XV said:
Right, but the fire department usually can handle such situations. Why didn't they call them for assistance? I don't know about Scotland, but here it's very common to see a fire truck at the site of an accident. They get there pretty quick too.
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yeah, not a lot of detail in the story. no idea why it took 4 hours to get her to the hospital. maybe they did call the fire dept. but they don't have cranes, forklifts either.

maybe her injuries were such that having 4-5 guys manhandle her into an ambulance would have done more harm than good? maybe they had to wait on specialized lifting equipment to arrive. who knows.

the main point is, the justice system isn't an automated cookie cutter process where every case is treated the same regardless of the circumstances.
 
OscarB63 said:
her death was also a consequence of her own actions. if she hadn't allowed herself to get so heavy that emergency responders couldn't lift her into an ambulance she would have gotten treatment hours earlier that would have, by all accounts, saved her life.
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by that logic, you're saying a man with a bad heart from smoking could die from being hit by a car as well, because his heart couldn't take it, and it would be his fault. we disagree here.
 
liblady said:
by that logic, you're saying a man with a bad heart from smoking could die from being hit by a car as well, because his heart couldn't take it, and it would be his fault. we disagree here.
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as usual, you don't understand what I said. I never said "it was her fault". her actions, in this particular case, lead up to her death because they prevented her from getting prompt medical attention.

It seems that your biggest complaint is that this guy wasn't "treated like everyone else". what we are trying to get across to you is that he was. in every case, ALL the circumstances surrounding it are taken into account. this case is no different. the fact that you don't agree with the outcome is irrelevent. He was treated just like anyone else.
 
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Arcana XV said:
I think the problem was more that they couldn't lift her into it.
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bingo. have you ever tried to lift 400 pounds of dead weight? especially soft pliable dead weight with no handholds. I doubt that even 4-5 strong guys could've lifted her.
 
Arcana XV said:
I think the problem was more that they couldn't lift her into it.
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Yeah, I saw that mentioned earlier. Either way, her death was a result of circumstances beyond anyone's control.
 
OscarB63 said:
bingo. have you ever tried to lift 400 pounds of dead weight? especially soft pliable dead weight with no handholds. I doubt that even 4-5 strong guys could've lifted her.
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That's what fire is for. Plus it would prevent her from coming back as a zombie.
 
OscarB63 said:
as usual, you don't understand what I said. I never said "it was her fault". her actions, in this particular case, lead up to her death because they prevented her from getting prompt medical attention.

It seems that your biggest complaint is that this guy wasn't "treated like everyone else". what we are trying to get across to you is that he was. in every case, ALL the circumstances surrounding it are taken into account. this case is no different. the fact that you don't agree with the outcome is irrelevent. He was treated just like anyone else.
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i believe the op asked if we agreed or disagreed? i disagree. doesn't mean i am right, nor does it mean you are right. but, as usual, you seem to think your opinion is the only valid opinion.
 
liblady said:
i believe the op asked if we agreed or disagreed? i disagree. doesn't mean i am right, nor does it mean you are right. but, as usual, you seem to think your opinion is the only valid opinion.
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no, I also think that Ikari, Arcana XV, other, rev, etc have valid opinions. it is only your opinion, in this case, that I think is invalid.

but feel free to continue to misrepresent my POV, if it makes you feel better.
 
I had to vote "other," because I'm a pain in the ass like that.

I'm glad the guy isn't going to jail. As a matter of fact, I don't think he should have a criminal record at all.

I don't think the woman's weight should've had anything to do with that, however. My feeling is that this should have been a civil suit, brought either by the government or by the woman's surviving family.

Criminal charges should be reserved exclusively for those with evil intent or who exhibit depraved indifference. I don't this guy falls into either category.

If the victim had been slim and old, would we have held him less responsible because the victim was frail? The victim's physical condition should not, in my mind, play any part in deciding the level of responsibility for injury to the victim.

If he'd hit her way out in the boonies, the result would've been the same, and his level of responsibility would've been the same.



Please note that I am making my remarks with no consideration whatsoever for how the legal system works in Scotland or anywhere else in Europe. This post is based entirely on my personal opinion on how the presence of either mens rea or depraved indifference should be the absolute bedrock basis for any criminal charge.
 
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