View Poll Results: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

Voters
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  • invasive pat downs

    12 10.62%
  • Non invasive pat downs.

    31 27.43%
  • Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.

    17 15.04%
  • Real strip searches

    11 9.73%
  • Cavity search.

    53 46.90%
  • walking through a metal detector.

    52 46.02%
  • other

    29 25.66%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

  1. #301
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    I'm glad to see this discussion isn't fracturing along partisan lines as it usually does. What we see here is a division between people who are aware of what the law says about protections against unreasonable search and seizure such as myself, and people who are ignorant of it.

  2. #302
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, he was responding to my challenge of his brazen assertions of fact and law and has yet show he has any idea what's yapping about, despite repeated requests . . .
    A fine example of the sort of unawareness I'm talking about. Kal'Stang already did this:

    Quote Originally Posted by US v. Hartwell, pages 4-5
    The Court next sustained the search under the theory that it was a “consensual administrative
    search[].” Hartwell, 296 F. Supp. 2d at 602 (citing United States v. Davis, 482 F.2d 893 (9th Cir. 1973)). Finally, the Court stated that “by submitting to the screening process, defendant impliedly consented to the search and was lawfully required to complete the search to determine the cause of the alarm.” Hartwell, 296 F. Supp. 2d at 605. On appeal, Hartwell argues that all three rationales are unfounded. We disagree.

  3. #303
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    A fine example of the sort of unawareness I'm talking about. Kal'Stang already did this:
    Considering I don't see anything there about ISPs and the government's authority to mandate they turn over all records, nor anything about contractual waivers of rights, nor anything about the rules of standing for a suit, this has nothing to do with anything I challenged you on.

    But it's been obvious for some time now that you have no intention of even attempting to support the claims of fact and law you made concerning those things.

    As for the case itself, a learned reading of it will show that the fact pattern involved resembles IN NO WAY the fact pattern in these invasive screenings and overly-intrusive pat-downs, which will certainly test the boundaries of "minimally intrusive." (I bring up that phrase as though you might have any idea that 1) it's even in the opinion from which you quote or 2) what it means as a standard. Ha! ) The holding in this case hinged on the fact that they had an ironclad reason to search further. This case is easily and entirely distinguishable (oooh! Another legal term you'll pooch!) from the current screening methods.

    But hey, if you ever actually want to respond to the posts you've been pretending I didn't make . . .
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #304
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'm glad to see this discussion isn't fracturing along partisan lines as it usually does. What we see here is a division between people who are aware of what the law says about protections against unreasonable search and seizure such as myself, and people who are ignorant of it.
    Prove that you're "aware" of it.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059113844
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #305
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Yeah. That's what I thought.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #306
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'm glad to see this discussion isn't fracturing along partisan lines as it usually does. What we see here is a division between people who are aware of what the law says about protections against unreasonable search and seizure such as myself, and people who are ignorant of it.
    You've yet to show anything to support your position, in the grand universe of settled law, that actually proves your point - which is clearly based entirely in subjectivity.

  7. #307
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by topshelf View Post
    You've yet to show anything to support your position, in the grand universe of settled law, that actually proves your point - which is clearly based entirely in subjectivity.
    For a citation that is specifically on point, please see post 302.

    But I'm right even without citations. Anybody even passingly familiar with the fourth amendment will agree with me. Don't get me wrong, I like educating people who are ignorant of the law, like Harshaw and yourself, but this stuff is so basic that citations aren't necessary.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-21-10 at 06:44 PM.

  8. #308
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'm glad to see this discussion isn't fracturing along partisan lines as it usually does. What we see here is a division between people who are aware of what the law says about protections against unreasonable search and seizure such as myself, and people who are ignorant of it.
    There's detectable metal in all explosive devices, no matter where they're hidden. So just improve the detector technology to locate it.

    ricksfolly

  9. #309
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    There's detectable metal in all explosive devices, no matter where they're hidden. So just improve the detector technology to locate it.

    ricksfolly
    A metal detector without consent is an illegal search too. Consent is the issue.

  10. #310
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Legally, consent with no recourse isn't consent. If you need to get someplace, for business or personal reasons, and they only way you can get there is by flying, and the airport will prevent you from flying if you don't consent to their searches, legally, you would be giving consent under duress. In court, that doesn't hold up as actual consent.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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