View Poll Results: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

Voters
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  • invasive pat downs

    12 10.62%
  • Non invasive pat downs.

    31 27.43%
  • Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.

    17 15.04%
  • Real strip searches

    11 9.73%
  • Cavity search.

    53 46.90%
  • walking through a metal detector.

    52 46.02%
  • other

    29 25.66%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

  1. #261
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    Guy Incognito's Avatar
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Hardly sounds very libertarian. Quite the opposite, actually.
    It's not libertarian, it's a fact. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, it is not a violation of the fourth amendment. The fourth amendment only protects against unreasonable searches and seizures of person and papers by the government. This doesn't qualify. I don't understand why you can't see that.

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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I don't understand why you can't see that.
    His paradigms are getting in the way.

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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    I haven't been flying at all lately (which I consider to be a blessing), yet I believe my boss has plans to send me to Spain pretty soon. A Spanish Army contract has come our way for night vision mods on a fleet of Bell AB-212 aircraft.
    I wanted to say this, before I forgot...you lucky bastard. I'd love to go to Spain.

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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    don't carry **** in your pockets that will set off the metal detector. don't pack **** in your carry-on that looks like a bomb or a gun on x-ray. don't stroke out about someone seeing the blue outline of your tiny weiner on a body scanner screen.
    Quoted, belatedly, for truth.

  5. #265
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    “It has nothing to do with being chicken****ted, and everything to do with the fact that racial profiling has largely been discredited as a law enforcement technique. It doesn't work.” - Catz Part Deux

    Really? Ya know, you’re the first I’ve ever heard say this. Every critique I’ve ever heard against it is that it’s “racist”, etc.

    The fact that it is used by law-enforcement is evidence that it does work.

    You have also overlooked the fact that Israel uses profiling and is surrounded by people that want to kill them and yet they don’t have the same problems or burden their citizens the way that the TSA does.

    “The security measures that would have prevented these attacks weren't in place because the threats weren't recognized at that point in time. Now, those security protocols are well-established, and we can assume, since similar strategies haven't taken place since, that they are working.” - Catz Part Deux

    You assume they work since a terrorist has not found an opportunity and not that opportunities don’t exist. Those are two very different things and do not address the effectiveness of the “security practices”. You also fail to realize that these security measure all reactive.

    “What that means is that we have a determined foe who will continue to search out holes in our system that they can exploit, like these…” - Catz Part Deux

    Yes, and one day they will find such a hole and possibly kill thousands more people because our entire approach is all wrong.

    Please consider this from Isaac Yeffet, the former head of security for El Al (Israel’s airline):

    “In 2002, we had Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. This man gave the security people all the suspicious signs that any passenger could show. The man got a British passport in Belgium, not in England. Number Two: he flew to Paris, he bought a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida. He paid cash. He came to the airport with no luggage. What else do I need to know that this passenger is suspicious?

    What did we learn from this? Just to tell the passenger from now on, you take off your shoes when you come to the airport? This I call a patch on top of a patch.

    Now we face the story with [Umar Farouk] AbdulMutallab. We had all the information that we could dream the security people could get. He was on the list of people connected to al Qaeda. I don't need more to understand that when he comes, I am not looking for more evidence. He is suspicious; I have to take care of him.”

    What he’s talking about is “profiling”…get it?

    “Well, that's because he's a Muslim lover, per you.” - Catz Part Deux

    The fact that Obama is a Muslim sympathizer is well documented but another debate.

    “Except your posts are largely devoid of facts, and full of frothy rants about Obama, the Muslim lover.” - Catz Part Deux

    And you’ve demonstrated that you wouldn’t know the truth if it fell from the sky, landed on your face and wiggled.

    “As I said...a female agent searched her.” - Catz Part Deux

    Nobody’s disputed that…so?

    “Wrongdoing is always possible, I'm fairly certain that people make mistakes all the time…” - Catz Part Deux

    This is simply pathetic.

    When I or anyone else buys a plane ticket we do not give up our civil liberties simply because we have bought a plane ticket or because the TSA is a bunch of chicksh_ _s and incapable of implementing practices that focus on finding terrorist instead of forcing new mothers to drink their own breast milk.

    Do you understand that if effective practices--such as the one’s that Israel utilizes--were used that our security would be proactive vs. reactive, that there would be fewer “unrecognized threats” (paraphrasing your words) and would also prevent the imbeciles of the TSA from perpetrating acts of sexual battery against additional people such as the act committed by the one female of the TSA against another female as referenced in the article linked in my last post?

    Do you understand that?

    “So, only Islamic males are suspect? As stated, racial profiling is not an effective law enforcement strategy.” - Catz Part Deux

    Nope! I guess you don’t understand it.

    “What do terrorists look like? You're bitching about the costs and problems associated with our current screening methods, without realizing that El Al only has to screen passengers for 40 planes, TOTAL. We do not have the manpower, or the budget, to screen using the Israeli methods. Our passenger load makes this completely impossible and absurd.” - Catz Part Deux

    But we do have the manpower to check everyone’s belongings, shoes, inspect full-body imaging scanners and pat everyone down?

    Really?
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  6. #266
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    “You do know that profileing based on race is illegal and against the Constitution right?” - Kal’Stang

    Really?

    Do tell.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  7. #267
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    His paradigms are getting in the way.

    I'm not sure what you think that word means, but you're wrong.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  8. #268
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    I'm not sure what you think that word means, but you're wrong.
    Let me explain what that meant for you, then. Your paradigms are indeed getting in the way of your understanding of the issue. You see an invasive search and you immediately think of the fourth amendment. But the trouble is that the fourth only applies to searches that performed by the government and are unconsented to. So your outrage over what your perceive as an invasion of privacy is preventing you from seeing that the fourth amendment, which usually protects privacy, doesn't help in this case.

    This isn't a Constitutional issue. Don't make it one, it doesn't help your side.

  9. #269
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Let me explain what that meant for you, then. Your paradigms are indeed getting in the way of your understanding of the issue. You see an invasive search and you immediately think of the fourth amendment. But the trouble is that the fourth only applies to searches that performed by the government and are unconsented to. So your outrage over what your perceive as an invasion of privacy is preventing you from seeing that the fourth amendment, which usually protects privacy, doesn't help in this case.

    This isn't a Constitutional issue. Don't make it one, it doesn't help your side.
    I think you're failing to communicate that this is YOUR evaluation. This will be challenged in a court of law, and in appellate courts - and perhaps higher. That is how our government works and this is definitely a matter that requires judicial review.

  10. #270
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by topshelf View Post
    I think you're failing to communicate that this is YOUR evaluation. This will be challenged in a court of law, and in appellate courts - and perhaps higher. That is how our government works and this is definitely a matter that requires judicial review.
    It really isn't my interpretation. This is pretty cut and dry stuff, taking it to court over a violation of passengers' fourth amendment rights would be frivolous.

    Like I have repeatedly said, it's between the government and the airline. Maybe the airlines have a case, but it doesn't look like they are going to pursue it. Passengers have got squat for a case.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-21-10 at 12:12 PM.

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