View Poll Results: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

Voters
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  • invasive pat downs

    12 10.62%
  • Non invasive pat downs.

    31 27.43%
  • Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.

    17 15.04%
  • Real strip searches

    11 9.73%
  • Cavity search.

    53 46.90%
  • walking through a metal detector.

    52 46.02%
  • other

    29 25.66%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

  1. #251
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Does the government have the right to read your email, if they're providing the power that keeps the lights on at your internet service provider? No one is forcing you to use the internet or to have electricity, therefore your consent to this invasion of privacy is presumed. Right?
    That analogy makes no sense. The government does have the ability to regulate internet service providers and e-mail companies, even mandating disclosure of all their files. That is between the company and the government, not the user and the government. As long as it is in the TOS when you sign up for the service, you're consenting to it.

    The government can't just do that retroactively, because you have a reason expectation of privacy. That would be a violation of the fourth amendment. But as long as you knew the search was coming before you signed up, it is not a violation of your rights.

    I don't even know what you're getting at with the electricity analogy.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-20-10 at 09:59 PM.

  2. #252
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Good points. I guess this is why there are federal and state requirements that regulate who can drive, how they can drive, and whether they are required to use safety measures like seat belts. Do you consider those requirements to be an infringement on your constitutional rights?
    Nope, not at all. But then, speed limits and driver's licenses are considerably less invasive than nudie booths and groin-touching.

    Anyway, my point is that your concern about the body count / economic cost of another 9/11 type event is misplaced. Not only is an event on that scale simply not going to happen again, but there are far more effective ways for our government to be spending its resources to minimize lives lost and economic costs, such as automobile safety.

    A 10% reduction in automobile accidents would be far more cost-effective than a 100% reduction in airline terrorism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux
    It's not a fail. This is only a violation of your rights if the government is forcing you to submit to these searches. You aren't being forced, because taking an air flight is a purely voluntary act. /thread.
    Stop saying it's a purely voluntary act, as though that means my consent to invasions of my privacy is automatic. Virtually everything people do is a purely voluntary act, yet no one would tolerate the government employing these kind of draconian security measures virtually anywhere other than an airport. Even the Pentagon doesn't do this kind of ****. Whenever I go to the Pentagon, I just pass through a couple metal detectors and answer a couple questions about my visit.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-20-10 at 10:11 PM.
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  3. #253
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Given the likelihood of being bombed, yes it is. My rights trump your irrational fears any day of the week.
    I think the people who are afraid of pat downs are the ones with irrational fears.

  4. #254
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    I do like the current mindset that if some nut jumps up from his seat to rush the pilot's cabin that there are going to be some passengers jumping him and beating the crap out of him.

    If someone attempted to take a plane down I was in I have a good feeling I would kill him and most likely have enough help in that endeavor.

    I train in Krav Maga and know in a plane of 100 or more passengers the odds there will be an off duty police officer or someone involved in martial arts. When you attack the perp there is going to be someone else to help you.

  5. #255
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That analogy makes no sense. The government does have the ability to regulate internet service providers and e-mail companies, even mandating disclosure of all their files. That is between the company and the government, not the user and the government. As long as it is in the TOS when you sign up for the service, you're consenting to it.
    So as long as your internet service provider lets you know in the TOS that the government is requiring them to turn over all your emails, it's OK with you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito
    The government can't just do that retroactively, because you have a reason expectation of privacy. That would be a violation of the fourth amendment. But as long as you knew the search was coming before you signed up, it is not a violation of your rights.
    OK, well suppose it's a condition for your continued service. You can drop your service immediately, or you can agree to let your ISP turn over all your emails to the government. And all the other ISPs in town will require the same thing, so no switching to a different one. That's cool with you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito
    I don't even know what you're getting at with the electricity analogy.
    The ISP = the airline. The government, in both cases, provides them with a service. In one case, you believes that gives them a blank check to violate any civil liberties they want since the activity (just like almost any other activity) is voluntary, and its being channeled through some ostensibly private entity to the end user. I was just wondering if your views of government snooping into your email were the same, and if not, why not.

    Hardly sounds very libertarian. Quite the opposite, actually.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-20-10 at 10:20 PM.
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  6. #256
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    I think the people who are afraid of pat downs are the ones with irrational fears.
    Why should I be treated like a criminal just because you're worried about the 0.0000002% (or less) chance that your plane will be bombed? Of all the things that could possibly kill you, this shouldn't be anywhere CLOSE to the top of the list of things to worry about.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-20-10 at 10:20 PM.
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  7. #257
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nope, not at all. But then, speed limits and driver's licenses are considerably less invasive than nudie booths and groin-touching.
    Are they less invasive than requiring a vision test and disclosure of sensitive medical conditions? I don't think so.

    You know, no offense intended, but every time you use the term "nudie booth," you make it clear that you exist in the realm of hyperbole and don't have a logical foundation ot stand on.

    Anyway, my point is that your concern about the body count / economic cost of another 9/11 type event is misplaced. Not only is an event on that scale simply not going to happen again, but there are far more effective ways for our government to be spending its resources to minimize lives lost and economic costs, such as automobile safety.

    A 10% reduction in automobile accidents would be far more cost-effective than a 100% reduction in airline terrorism.
    This is a false dichotomy. The "government" can and does do both. Your statements here also indicate a massive lack of understanding of "government." Regulating driving requirements is in the realm of the state and local governments. However, no single state and local government could effectively regulate air travel. There is not a single monolithic government, in the U.S. There are many sorts of governments.

    Stop saying it's a purely voluntary act, as though that means my consent to invasions of my privacy is automatic.
    If you don't wish to submit to the screening, don't fly.

    Even the Pentagon doesn't do this kind of ****. Whenever I go to the Pentagon, I just pass through a couple metal detectors and answer a couple questions about my visit.
    Have people often tried to smuggle bombs into the Pentagon in their underpants and shoes? The first time it happens, you'll be facing far more draconian security measures.

  8. #258
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why should I be treated like a criminal just because you're worried about the 0.0000002% (or less) chance that your plane will be bombed? Of all the things that could possibly kill you, this shouldn't be anywhere CLOSE to the top of the list of things to worry about.
    If you don't want to be security screened, don't fly. Take a train. Or, rent your own private jet.

  9. #259
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    I do like the current mindset that if some nut jumps up from his seat to rush the pilot's cabin that there are going to be some passengers jumping him and beating the crap out of him.

    If someone attempted to take a plane down I was in I have a good feeling I would kill him and most likely have enough help in that endeavor.

    I train in Krav Maga and know in a plane of 100 or more passengers the odds there will be an off duty police officer or someone involved in martial arts. When you attack the perp there is going to be someone else to help you.
    THis is great, but your greatest threat isn't going to come from some goon rushing the cockpit. It's going to come from some goon attempting to detonate a bomb on the flight.

    Or, some female goon detonating her fake breasts.

  10. #260
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    I think the people who are afraid of pat downs are the ones with irrational fears.
    Not to mention the people who use the term "nudie booth." Are they afraid their junk just won't stand up to the scrutiny?

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