View Poll Results: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

Voters
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  • invasive pat downs

    12 10.62%
  • Non invasive pat downs.

    31 27.43%
  • Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.

    17 15.04%
  • Real strip searches

    11 9.73%
  • Cavity search.

    53 46.90%
  • walking through a metal detector.

    52 46.02%
  • other

    29 25.66%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

  1. #171
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Bullcrap, federal employees are regularly fired. Give me an example of privatization of a security function that has resulted in better customer service.

    Do you plan to privatize the FBI next? :
    It's not about firing a single screener - it's about a bad system. They are going through this at BZN (Bozeman) right now where they are looking to hire a private security firm because of problems with the TSA methodology.

    John Stossel did a report on this recently - that private security firms were cheaper, more efficient and provided better customer service.

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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I've traveled with a 1 year old and a 4 year old. Give me an f'ing break. Not all women are as frail and incompetent as you seem to prefer. I managed to successfully travel cross country, on a regular basis, with little kids. My parents lived 1000 miles from us and I saw them a few times a year with the kids.

    If a woman, in advance of flying, is too stupid to research the rules about flying, she's too stupid to fly.
    Do you really think your personal anecdotes and almost f-bombs make a strong argument?

  3. #173
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    It never fails to amaze me....the people who most likely are the first to claim they are "patriotic" are usually, if not always the ones that have the least respect for our Constitution and the principles that it embraces.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #174
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Do you have the right to sneak a bomb onto a plane? If you're against various precautionary measures, then you apparently feel you do.
    Disingenuous much?

    Opposing certain methods of airport security =/= opposing ALL airport security measures, nor does opposing the patdowns as they are conducted now and/or the bopdy scanners mean you support some right for people to carry bombs on board.


    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Do I have a right to survive the flight from point A to point B without you blowing it up? I think so.
    Likewise, if you are going to ensure that happens, make sure the methods are not only constitutional, but work. Otherwise don't expect me to bend over blindly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    So, how do we reconcile those 'rights'? Yours to not be searched for explosives and mine not to be killed when your bomb goes off?
    Again, disingenuous. Nobody is reasonably arguing that they shouldn't be searched at all - they just want to ensure that those searches are as uninvasive as possible. Come to think of it, isn't the administrative law that allows the TSA's searches/checkpoint VERY SPECIFIC about that - the measures they use being reasonably un-intrusive, or something like that?


    After reading comments on this issue on CNN, Fox News ,and here, I see a common trend where those in blind support of the TSA as it is can't help but argue only in hyperbole and intellectually bankrupt arguments.


    As for the claim about the body scanner's imaging:

    How does one REALLY know what they see? Given how the images they release are far from full size/resolution, often pixelated to hell, and altered in some way - contrast, white balance, etc - making it near impossible to tell what is REALLY being seen. That, and anybody with a basic understanding of how computers store/transfer/manipulate data can easily understand how full of sh*t the TSA's claim is in regards to these machines somehow not being able to store/transmit/savew/etc images in any way/shape/form.
    Last edited by Travelsonic; 11-19-10 at 09:31 PM.
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by topshelf View Post
    Do you really think your personal anecdotes and almost f-bombs make a strong argument?
    Now you say this, after building your entire argument on personal anectdote? Lulz. Don't be pissy just because your arguments are pale and flabby.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 11-19-10 at 09:49 PM.

  6. #176
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If people can't bother to research the requirements for flying (including what they can, and can't take on the plane), they deserve to be put through the ringer. This **** isn't rocket science, and these protocols exist for a reason.
    No they don't. We take off our shoes because ONE GUY tried to blow up a plane with explosives in his shoes. We have nudie booths because ONE GUY tried to blow up a plane with explosives in his undies. Sorry, that's not a good enough reason for such a ridiculous waste of time and infringement on civil liberties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux
    As far as the kids in Mickey Mouse ears and their parents...TERRORISTS LOOK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. They have used women and children...blonds and brunettes. You cannot have an effective comprehensive policy to reduce attacks on flights without screening everyone, without preferences.
    No they don't. They look like young men who behave nervously and who come from Muslim countries or have recently traveled to Muslim countries. When has a woman or child EVER been involved in airplane bombing? Why must little kids be felt up by TSA officials, just so that we can pretend that terrorists look like everyone else?
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  7. #177
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Do you have the right to sneak a bomb onto a plane? If you're against various precautionary measures, then you apparently feel you do.
    Do you have the right to hack into Pentagon computers? If you're against the government intalling spyware on your computer and tracking your every mouse click and keystroke, then apparently you feel you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian
    Do I have a right to survive the flight from point A to point B without you blowing it up? I think so.

    So, how do we reconcile those 'rights'? Yours to not be searched for explosives and mine not to be killed when your bomb goes off?
    Except my desire to be secure in my person, but upon probable cause, is a rational desire. Whereas your completely absurd belief that you're likely to be the victim of a terrorist attack unless the federal government probes everyone's undies for explosives, is not.
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No they don't. We take off our shoes because ONE GUY tried to blow up a plane with explosives in his shoes. We have nudie booths because ONE GUY tried to blow up a plane with explosives in his undies. Sorry, that's not a good enough reason for such a ridiculous waste of time and infringement on civil liberties.
    It wasn't just one guy. It was these guys...

    Islamic extremist guilty of liquid bomb plot to blow up transatlantic jets | Mail Online

    It was the terror plot which changed the nature of airline travel for ever.

    Three British-born Islamic fanatics planned to use liquid explosives disguised as soft drinks to blow at least seven flights out of the sky and cause carnage to rival 9/11 in the U.S.

    A second phase of the plan included attacks on Canary Wharf skyscrapers, the Greenwich foot tunnel underneath the Thames, nuclear power stations, oil refineries and gas terminals.

    The discovery of the plot in 2006 brought chaos to international airports as sweeping restrictions were imposed overnight on how much liquid can be taken on to a plane.
    Plus several dozen of what were suspected to be dry-runs involving liquids on U.S. flights.

    I'm not sure you're up enough on current events to comment on this, since you've clearly forgotten much of the last 5 years.

    No they don't. They look like young men who behave nervously and who come from Muslim countries or have recently traveled to Muslim countries. When has a woman or child EVER been involved in airplane bombing? Why must little kids be felt up by TSA officials, just so that we can pretend that terrorists look like everyone else?
    Apparently, you don't remember Jihad Jane.

    JihadJane, an American woman, faces terrorism charges - washingtonpost.com
    Colleen Renee LaRose, 46, has been quietly held in U.S. custody since October on suspicions that she provided material support to terrorists and traveled to Sweden to launch an attack, according to federal officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the case is continuing to unfold.
    Or, the women who blew up a Moscow subway station...

    Is there a glass ceiling in Islamist terrorist organizations? - By Brian Palmer - Slate Magazine

    Or the female suicide bombers in Iraq. Israel, and elsewhere...Female Suicide Bomber Kills 40 In Iraq - CBS News
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 11-19-10 at 11:56 PM.

  9. #179
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If people can't bother to research the requirements for flying (including what they can, and can't take on the plane), they deserve to be put through the ringer. This **** isn't rocket science, and these protocols exist for a reason.

    As far as the kids in Mickey Mouse ears and their parents...TERRORISTS LOOK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. They have used women and children...blonds and brunettes. You cannot have an effective comprehensive policy to reduce attacks on flights without screening everyone, without preferences.

    The only change I would support at this point would be fingerprinting and creating an upper tier of screening for frequent fliers that would allow us to bypass the lines based upon providing the airline with detailed security information. That would free up more personnel to assist the noobs.

    As far as not allowing your wife to fly because she might be exposed to unpleasantness at the security checkpoints? Good grief, that's one of the most ridiculous comments I've read in recent memory. I guess if your wife can't handle herself at a TSA checkpoint, she probably does need to stay at home. Preferably, with a full time minder.
    Catz, I love you. But I can't agree with you on this subject. There are limitations to what government can and cannot do. The aggressive and invasive measure that the TSA now currently runs is over that boundary. OK, maybe there were some bombs here and there. Packages can be subjected to searches a bit more than a person themselves. You may have no problem with the DNA unzipping millimeter wave radiation; but it's still not warranted without proof. There has to be proof. If in the course of reasonable checks something turns up, then yes maybe some more invasive techniques are required. But you cannot randomly subject the populace to aggressive, invasive search without some form of reasonable suspicion. Just trying to get on a plane does not cut it. There has to be a limit, there has to be restraint, there has to be focus on the rights and liberties of the individual. Otherwise, we're bound for worse places than a terrorist could ever take us.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  10. #180
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Catz, I love you. But I can't agree with you on this subject. There are limitations to what government can and cannot do. The aggressive and invasive measure that the TSA now currently runs is over that boundary. OK, maybe there were some bombs here and there. Packages can be subjected to searches a bit more than a person themselves. You may have no problem with the DNA unzipping millimeter wave radiation; but it's still not warranted without proof. There has to be proof. If in the course of reasonable checks something turns up, then yes maybe some more invasive techniques are required. But you cannot randomly subject the populace to aggressive, invasive search without some form of reasonable suspicion. Just trying to get on a plane does not cut it. There has to be a limit, there has to be restraint, there has to be focus on the rights and liberties of the individual. Otherwise, we're bound for worse places than a terrorist could ever take us.
    I'm sorry, dude, I disagree. We are still an active target for these groups. The most recent attempted attack was 2 weeks ago. Flying is not a right. No one forces you to get onto a plane. You tacitly consent to security checks when you book your ticket.

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