View Poll Results: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • invasive pat downs

    12 10.62%
  • Non invasive pat downs.

    31 27.43%
  • Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.

    17 15.04%
  • Real strip searches

    11 9.73%
  • Cavity search.

    53 46.90%
  • walking through a metal detector.

    52 46.02%
  • other

    29 25.66%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

  1. #141
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Apparently my last post in this thread did nothing. To bad. Well, I'm not going to continue repeating myself over and over to the same arguements presented by those that seem to be in such a tizzy over security.
    Ya well gotta have that top noch security so we can get those terrorists YAY America woo hoo!!! I Know!!! lets start strip searching people and then do a full cavity search cause you never can be to carefull.
    " Those who plan to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it" - Thomas Paine
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  2. #142
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Apparently my last post in this thread did nothing. To bad. Well, I'm not going to continue repeating myself over and over to the same arguements presented by those that seem to be in such a tizzy over security.
    I know, right? Some people seem to think that we should have infinite security without trying to understand what that would actually mean for the free exercise of our rights. There's only so much "security" one can have before the government begins to infringe upon the rights and liberties of the individual. A free state is necessarily a dangerous state.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #143
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Ahhh, good ol' Ron Paul. If only more folk in Congress were like him.
    Introducing the American Traveler Dignity Act

    Mr. Speaker, today I introduce legislation to protect Americans from physical and emotional abuse by federal Transportation Security Administration employees conducting screenings at the nation’s airports. We have seen the videos of terrified children being grabbed and probed by airport screeners. We have read the stories of Americans being subjected to humiliating body imaging machines and/or forced to have the most intimate parts of their bodies poked and fondled. We do not know the potentially harmful effects of the radiation emitted by the new millimeter wave machines.

    In one recent well-publicized case, a TSA official is recorded during an attempted body search saying, “By buying your ticket you gave up a lot of rights.” I strongly disagree and am sure I am not alone in believing that we Americans should never give up our rights in order to travel. As our Declaration of Independence states, our rights are inalienable. This TSA version of our rights looks more like the “rights” granted in the old Soviet Constitutions, where freedoms were granted to Soviet citizens -- right up to the moment the state decided to remove those freedoms.

    The incident of the so-called “underwear bomber” last Christmas is given as justification for the billions of dollars the federal government is spending on the new full-body imaging machines, but a Government Accountability Office study earlier this year concluded that had these scanners been in use they may not have detected the explosive material that was allegedly brought onto the airplane. Additionally, there have been recent press reports calling into question the accuracy and adequacy of these potentially dangerous machines.

    My legislation is simple. It establishes that airport security screeners are not immune from any US law regarding physical contact with another person, making images of another person, or causing physical harm through the use of radiation-emitting machinery on another person. It means they are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

    Imagine if the political elites in our country were forced to endure the same conditions at the airport as business travelers, families, senior citizens, and the rest of us. Perhaps this problem could be quickly resolved if every cabinet secretary, every member of Congress, and every department head in the Obama administration were forced to submit to the same degrading screening process as the people who pay their salaries.

    I warned at the time of the creation of the TSA that an unaccountable government entity in control of airport security would provide neither security nor defend our basic freedom to travel. Yet the vast majority of both Republicans and Democrats then in Congress willingly voted to create another unaccountable, bullying agency-- in a simple-minded and unprincipled attempt to appease public passion in the wake of 9-11. Sadly, as we see with the steady TSA encroachment on our freedom and dignity, my fears in 2001 were justified.

    The solution to the need for security at US airports is not a government bureaucracy. The solution is to allow the private sector, preferably the airlines themselves, to provide for the security of their property. As a recent article in Forbes magazine eloquently stated, “The airlines have enormous sums of money riding on passenger safety, and the notion that a government bureaucracy has better incentives to provide safe travels than airlines with billions of dollars worth of capital and goodwill on the line strains credibility.” In the meantime, I hope we can pass this legislation and protect Americans from harm and humiliation when they choose to travel.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #144
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Like I said (possibly in the other thread)... I don't have a problem with privatizing the TSA. Then, when they do the same thing they are doing now, no one can whine like little girls about the government violating our constitutional rights.

  5. #145
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Like I said (possibly in the other thread)... I don't have a problem with privatizing the TSA. Then, when they do the same thing they are doing now, no one can whine like little girls about the government violating our constitutional rights.
    And it would be well more responsive to claims of abuse, complaints and concerns of the passenger. It's the airlines which have money on the line; not the government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #146
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    BTW, there's no conclusive evidence which indicates the damage that these millimeter wave radiation can have; but there is indication that it is highly damaging to DNA.

    How Terahertz Waves Tear Apart DNA - Technology Review

    Great things are expected of terahertz waves, the radiation that fills the slot in the electromagnetic spectrum between microwaves and the infrared. Terahertz waves pass through non-conducting materials such as clothes , paper, wood and brick and so cameras sensitive to them can peer inside envelopes, into living rooms and "frisk" people at distance.

    The way terahertz waves are absorbed and emitted can also be used to determine the chemical composition of a material. And even though they don't travel far inside the body, there is great hope that the waves can be used to spot tumours near the surface of the skin.

    With all that potential, it's no wonder that research on terahertz waves has exploded in the last ten years or so.

    But what of the health effects of terahertz waves? At first glance, it's easy to dismiss any notion that they can be damaging. Terahertz photons are not energetic enough to break chemical bonds or ionise atoms or molecules, the chief reasons why higher energy photons such as x-rays and UV rays are so bad for us. But could there be another mechanism at work?

    The evidence that terahertz radiation damages biological systems is mixed. "Some studies reported significant genetic damage while others, although similar, showed none," say Boian Alexandrov at the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and a few buddies. Now these guys think they know why.

    Alexandrov and co have created a model to investigate how THz fields interact with double-stranded DNA and what they've found is remarkable. They say that although the forces generated are tiny, resonant effects allow THz waves to unzip double-stranded DNA, creating bubbles in the double strand that could significantly interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication. That's a jaw dropping conclusion.

    And it also explains why the evidence has been so hard to garner. Ordinary resonant effects are not powerful enough to do do this kind of damage but nonlinear resonances can. These nonlinear instabilities are much less likely to form which explains why the character of THz genotoxic
    effects are probabilistic rather than deterministic, say the team.

    This should set the cat among the pigeons. Of course, terahertz waves are a natural part of environment, just like visible and infrared light. But a new generation of cameras are set to appear that not only record terahertz waves but also bombard us with them. And if our exposure is set to increase, the question that urgently needs answering is what level of terahertz exposure is safe.

    Ref: arxiv.org/abs/0910.5294: DNA Breathing Dynamics in the Presence of a Terahertz Field
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #147
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    BTW, there's no conclusive evidence which indicates the damage that these millimeter wave radiation can have; but there is indication that it is highly damaging to DNA.

    Great things are expected of terahertz waves, the radiation that fills the slot in the electromagnetic spectrum between microwaves and the infrared. Terahertz waves pass through non-conducting materials such as clothes , paper, wood and brick and so cameras sensitive to them can peer inside envelopes, into living rooms and "frisk" people at distance.

    The way terahertz waves are absorbed and emitted can also be used to determine the chemical composition of a material. And even though they don't travel far inside the body, there is great hope that the waves can be used to spot tumours near the surface of the skin.

    With all that potential, it's no wonder that research on terahertz waves has exploded in the last ten years or so.

    But what of the health effects of terahertz waves? At first glance, it's easy to dismiss any notion that they can be damaging. Terahertz photons are not energetic enough to break chemical bonds or ionise atoms or molecules, the chief reasons why higher energy photons such as x-rays and UV rays are so bad for us. But could there be another mechanism at work?

    The evidence that terahertz radiation damages biological systems is mixed. "Some studies reported significant genetic damage while others, although similar, showed none," say Boian Alexandrov at the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and a few buddies. Now these guys think they know why.

    Alexandrov and co have created a model to investigate how THz fields interact with double-stranded DNA and what they've found is remarkable. They say that although the forces generated are tiny, resonant effects allow THz waves to unzip double-stranded DNA, creating bubbles in the double strand that could significantly interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication. That's a jaw dropping conclusion.

    And it also explains why the evidence has been so hard to garner. Ordinary resonant effects are not powerful enough to do do this kind of damage but nonlinear resonances can. These nonlinear instabilities are much less likely to form which explains why the character of THz genotoxic
    effects are probabilistic rather than deterministic, say the team.

    This should set the cat among the pigeons. Of course, terahertz waves are a natural part of environment, just like visible and infrared light. But a new generation of cameras are set to appear that not only record terahertz waves but also bombard us with them. And if our exposure is set to increase, the question that urgently needs answering is what level of terahertz exposure is safe.

    Ref: arxiv.org/abs/0910.5294: DNA Breathing Dynamics in the Presence of a Terahertz Field
    How Terahertz Waves Tear Apart DNA - Technology Review
    A... never trust computer models as 100%
    B... all sounds pretty 'maybe/maybe not' to me.

  8. #148
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    fully body cavity searches and coffee enemas
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  9. #149
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    A... never trust computer models as 100%
    B... all sounds pretty 'maybe/maybe not' to me.
    Nope, but the models then back observation. In the end, it is not conclusive at this point. There has not yet been enough study and investigation to understand the full effects that millimeter wave radiation can have on the body. But given that physicists have discovered this large potential for DNA unzipping, one would think that the rational thing to do would be to find out a bit more before subjecting people waiting to board an airplane to the radiation source.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #150
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    Re: What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Like I said (possibly in the other thread)... I don't have a problem with privatizing the TSA. Then, when they do the same thing they are doing now, no one can whine like little girls about the government violating our constitutional rights.
    Sounds good to me. Maybe one of the airlines could specifically market itself to the passengers who are terrified of the infinitesimal risk of being blown out of the sky by terrorists, and probe each of their assholes to make sure there is no trace of explosives. Maybe they can advertise their deep cavity searches on TV to make people feel extra-safe.

    And all of the rational people who just want to get from Point A to Point B can opt for the airlines which are OK with simple metal detectors. We'll see which strategy wins in the marketplace.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 11-19-10 at 05:55 PM.
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