View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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  • Yes

    31 37.80%
  • No

    43 52.44%
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    8 9.76%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #571
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Here, read it again... You'll find that there is no AND after free state, the only way the two parts of the sentence can be joined. The coma, the way it's used here, is only a pause, not a new statement.

    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    Frankly I couldn't care less if people are allowed to carry gun or not. If people must murder, they can always find other ways to do it.

    ricksfolly
    your rants about this amendment are consistently loony. If laws against murder don't prevent murderers from killing people why would they obey gun laws

    what part of the constitution delegates congress the power to regulate small arms?



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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    I am for 2nd amendment gun rights, but I like them to be regulated like cars.

    If it's easier to get a license for a car than it is to get a gun, then there's something wrong. It should be made sure that people know comprehensive gun safety specific to the weapon they want to purchase, either through a test, or if they need it, an educational course, followed by a test. Tests should both be in theory and in practice.

    Also, it should be harder to get more dangerous weapons. For example, getting an assault rifle shouldn't be as easy as getting a low caliber hunting rifle for example, but I am in support of assault rifles being available, as long as they have stringent protections on who can get them. I draw the line about there. No RPGs, no nuclear weapons :P

    Peace.

  3. #573
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    mad Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The "interpretation" involved does not have anything to do with "shall not be infringed", since that is perfectly clear.

    What people argue and present different interpretations of is what, precisely, is not to be infringed upon.

    The two main arguments seem to be:

    1. That there is an individual right to keep and bear arms and it shall not be infringed upon.
    2. That there is not an individual right to keep and bear arms, but only a right to keep and bear arms if you are in "the militia", and thus restrictions on individual gun ownership do not violate the constitution.
    And other less popular arguments.

    I think the currently most prevalent (in terms of numbers of people who ascribe to it) argument is that the second amendment is designed to prevent any infringement on an individual right to keep and bear arms.
    It IS an individual right. It clearly says "...the right of the PEOPLE...", every individual person. America was founded upon INDIVIDUAL rights, not collective rights.

  4. #574
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Here, read it again... You'll find that there is no AND after free state, the only way the two parts of the sentence can be joined. The coma, the way it's used here, is only a pause, not a new statement.

    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    Frankly I couldn't care less if people are allowed to carry gun or not. If people must murder, they can always find other ways to do it.

    ricksfolly
    The amendment is a single sentence. "Shall not be infringed" applies to ANY restrictions on gun ownership or anything else related to keeping and bearing arms.

  5. #575
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Here, read it again... You'll find that there is no AND after free state, the only way the two parts of the sentence can be joined. The coma, the way it's used here, is only a pause, not a new statement.

    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    Frankly I couldn't care less if people are allowed to carry gun or not. If people must murder, they can always find other ways to do it.

    ricksfolly

    Wrong.....


    Visual aid, imminent:


    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  6. #576
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Wrong.....


    Visual aid, imminent:


    It amazes me how the anti-2nd amendment loons try to claim that you to be part of a militia because there is a comma between the militia part and the people part. I do not think these same anti-2nd amendment loons would say that free speech,right to petition the government for grievances or to peacefully assemble only applies to people who are a member of both a church and press.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #577
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    It amazes me how the anti-2nd amendment loons try to claim that you to be part of a militia because there is a comma between the militia part and the people part. I do not think these same anti-2nd amendment loons would say that free speech,right to petition the government for grievances or to peacefully assemble only applies to people who are a member of both a church and press.
    Im all for the 2nd amendment, I have CWL myself and do carry on occasions. I did however have to do a background check and register etc etc and Im fine with that. I also agree its the RIGHT thing to do.

    I can see the argument saying that any restrictions is unconstitutional. Be to a great extent I see the argument that it would be stupid, irresponsible and down right asinine to allow the purchase of any and all weapons to any and all people That would simply endanger the people.
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  8. #578
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Im all for the 2nd amendment, I have CWL myself and do carry on occasions. I did however have to do a background check and register etc etc and Im fine with that. I also agree its the RIGHT thing to do.
    If you think a back ground check is okay then how does it stop a criminal from illegally purchasing a firearm or simply using a zip gun? How many crimes have fire arm registrations helped prevent or solve? If you support anti-2nd amendment laws then you can't call yourself a 2nd amendment proponent.


    I can see the argument saying that any restrictions is unconstitutional. Be to a great extent I see the argument that it would be stupid, irresponsible and down right asinine to allow the purchase of any and all weapons to any and all people That would simply endanger the people.
    The same could be said for allowing the government to regulate what firearm you can buy and who can buy. One of the main reasons for the 2nd amendment is so that the people can have the ability to remove a tyrannical government. So the government has no business dictating what the citizens can or can not buy.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 12-17-10 at 03:14 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #579
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If you think a back ground check is okay then how does it stop a criminal from illegally purchasing a firearm or simply using a zip gun? How many crimes have fire arm registrations helped prevent or solve? If you support anti-2nd amendment laws then you can't call yourself a 2nd amendment proponent.




    The same could be said for allowing the government to regulate what firearm you can buy and who can buy. One of the main reasons for the 2nd amendment is so that the people can have the ability to remove a tyrannical government. So the government has no business dictating what the citizens can or can not buy.
    you like putting words in peoples mouths dont you LOL
    who said background checks stop criminals from getting guns? oh thats right not me thats just something you said to try and make a point nobody was arguing against lol

    also the same COULD be said but as long as its regulated within reason Im totally fine with it

    guess Ill be dramatic to and exaggerate.
    I dont want nutballs to have "easier" access to fully automatic guns with explosive rounds lol

    "i" am a law abiding citizen so I like other law abiding citzens have no problem getting arms so like I said Im fine with the regulations.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  10. #580
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Going by what is written, it says nothing about obtaining arms, just keeping and bearing them, so to make it harder to obtain arms, strictly by what is written, is not against the constitution.
    Yeah right, you got a single shred of anything to back that up? BTW, we don't only go by what is written, we consider the original intent of the legislators.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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