View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

Voters
82. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    31 37.80%
  • No

    43 52.44%
  • Other

    8 9.76%
Page 50 of 65 FirstFirst ... 40484950515260 ... LastLast
Results 491 to 500 of 647

Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #491
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I'm not using it as an argument to support restriction, I'm asking the question: it clearly states that the militia is well regulated and said well regulated militia is necessary for a free State. If the citizenry is the militia, who's the regulator?

    That's what I'm asking. I agree with the 2nd Amendment, but I think "well regulated" is a quandry because it's clearly there and what it means varies a great deal from person to person and from legal scholar to legal scholar.

    It's also the only right (possibly the third) to be written conditionally as opposed to the others. The 1st Amendment is pretty clear - Congress shall make no law..., while the 2nd offers a condition before specifying the right.

    Again, I'm not arguing FOR restrictions, I'm just debating the language.

    For instance: when Tennessee passed the Guns in Bars law, bar-owners went ape-**** (because their insurance premiums would skyrocket) and even a bunch of largely conservative business owners began suing and lobbying to prevent the bill's passage.

    So, I ask: in order to maintain a well regulated militia, is it necessary to grant the people the right to bear arms in a bar? Or is that a reasonable restriction to say a business owner can disallow guns in his establishment?
    But individual citizens are not automatically members of a militia. The militia (or military) must be regulated, but it doesn't say a well regulated citizenry.

  2. #492
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So it is your interpretation that the state can regulate the militia but NOT the citizenry?
    The state can regulate the citizenry - so long as it does not infringe on the right to arms.
    The point is that the citizenry need not have any connection to the militia for it to have the right to arms or enjoy the protections affordrd to it by the amendment.

  3. #493
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That's a fair reading, but unfortunately it is problematic in a number of ways. For one thing, your definition of "keep and bear arms" is wrong. To the founders keep didn't mean "keep it in your house" and bear didn't mean "use it as you like."
    Please provide a quote to that effect.

    Keep and bear was a legal term of art, and much like the term "search and siezure," it had a very specific meaning. Simply put, keep meant "keep up" or "keep in working condition" and bear meant "bear against an invading army or tyrannical government."
    Please provide a quote to that effect.

    The militia clause informs the whole second amendment, giving it context. And if there was any doubt we were talking about the militia, the term "keep and bear" confirms that the scope the founders envisioned was limited to militia service.
    Please provide a quote to that effect.

  4. #494
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Last Seen
    01-10-12 @ 12:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    906

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    As written, the Second Amendment was clearly intended for militias. I wish we could just abrogate the amendment entirely and put an end to the ridiculous cult of firearms in this country.

  5. #495
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    As to the question of whether the original intent was to create an individual right or a right tied to the militia, Judge Posner, one of the most respected conservative judges of our time, has this to say:
    Still waiting for that primary source material that backs this position.

  6. #496
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    But, once again, on it's original meaning, the second amendment creates no such right. It may exist in State Constitutions, and it may not, but the simple fact is that the original meaning of the second amendment was not to protect a right to individual gun ownership for hunting or sport. And no such right existed as against the federal government otherwise. You are quite simply mistaken in your understanding of how law works.
    Still waiting for the primary source material that backs this up.

  7. #497
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The fact is that Posner is right...
    Still waiting for the primary source material that backs this up.

  8. #498
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    As written, the Second Amendment was clearly intended for militias
    Really. Who among the people that were involved with the amendment made such an argument?

    I wish we could just abrogate the amendment entirely and put an end to the ridiculous cult of firearms in this country.
    Of course you do -- defensless people are the easiest to control.

  9. #499
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    As written, the Second Amendment was clearly intended for militias. I wish we could just abrogate the amendment entirely and put an end to the ridiculous cult of firearms in this country.
    oh yeah, that's the ticket. that way the only people that would have firearms would be the cops and criminals.

    that arguement is as stupid as the one I hear about not allowing alcohol sales in some areas.

    if we regulate or outlaw guns....nobody is going to have guns
    if we don't sell liquor in our town....no one in our town will drink


    foolishly naive at best.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  10. #500
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Of course you do -- defensless people are the easiest to control.
    quote of the day
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

Page 50 of 65 FirstFirst ... 40484950515260 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •