View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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  • Yes

    31 37.80%
  • No

    43 52.44%
  • Other

    8 9.76%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #411
    Voluntary Resignation

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Does that make you feel macho or like you will win the Lew Rockewell Award this month?
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Lew Rockwell would be proud. And all thirty-eight of his readers salute you.

    Bet you just peed a little when you saw that picture, didn't ya?

  2. #412
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The second amendment should not be open to interpretation. The only reason why it has been was due to the dishonesty of the FDR court
    So the SC can interpret all law and the Constitution but for some reason the one sentence Second Amendment is off limits in your mind?
    That is a strange standard indeed.
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  3. #413
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    It seems like Lew Rockwell is your scapegoat for everything. I knew you were referring to him when you talked about the Libertarian's "opposition" to the 14th Amendment.

    One man DOES NOT represent an entire ideological movement.
    Very true - one man is not the movement. However, one man can be a giant within a movement - or what passes for a movement at least in the eyes of the True Believers. In the area of libertarianism, Rockwell is one of those giants. His opinion finds its way into libertarian orthodoxy and is often parroted by libs on websites. I was not here at the time, but on two other sites I was active on I was struck by the deafening silence from the usual libertarian activists when the Citizens United decisions was rendered by the Court. Lots of people were opining about it but the libs were either silent or cautiously on the fence. Then Rockwell wrote about it and others on his site did too and suddenly we had the usual suspects aping good old Lew.

    This site is different than other sites I have encountered. In all honesty there seems to be a type of gang mentality that exists here among the rightist libertarians. And I do not include E. Galt in that evaluation who seems more principled. There seems this alliance between people who identify themselves as conservative or very conservative and those who adopt the libertarian label. Normally I would read the angry words of libertarians proclaiming that they are not right wing, they are not conservative, that they cannot be labeled or identified. They are special. They are unique. They are in a class by themselves.

    I have heard that for years. But here it seems different and that is something for me to get used to.

    Or perhaps the alliance between libertarianism and the tea party has pushed the entire libertarian following to the right? perhaps folks like the good Reverend here have replaced the more traditional libertarian who found themselves on the left side of issues also. But here there is an open scorning of the left by libs and they cannot seem to say enough bad things about the left.

    In a way, that is understandable it would happen and libertarianism would shift to the right. After all, how many years now has it been that the Libertarian Party has been involved in elections and have generally struck out on three straight pitches time after time? In presidential elections, the party cannot even get one-half of one percent of the popular vote recently. The label of Libertarian seems the kiss of death at the ballot box. So the tea party movement is catching on with those on the right and they are trying to take over the Republican party and its probably a tactic worth trying for libertarians to jump on that bandwagon since their own wagon was crashed in the side ditch with no hope of ever getting on the road let alone winning the race.

    Its just like the comment from Goobieman which started this entire exchange. For some reason he had to take a potshot at the new libertarian enemy - the dreaded, the hated, the despicable "leftists" for wanting to have the unbridled temerity to interpret the Constitution. And it took ten long and winding pages to get him to even partially admit that he too acknowledges interpreting the Constitution also. So why take the easy shot in the first place if you believe in the same idea. Your interpretation is clearly not the same. But you believe in interpretation just the same.

    Its silly and pointless but its part of the gang mentality here and the libertarian shift to the right that is on display all over the land. I guess it something I have to get used to.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-18-10 at 08:32 AM.
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  4. #414
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Ah, repeats of ad hominems, appeals to false the authority, hasty generalizations, guilt by associations, and all weaved together with a heap of strawmen.

    That's a marvel of a post. And as far as I know, there's only one libertarian on the board who regularly reads Lew Rockwell. Personally, I think he's a crank. (Rockwell.)

    Look, it's no one's fault but yours that you didn't have the goods here. This continued blubbering over it is highly entertaining to watch.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #415
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The second amendment should not be open to interpretation. The only reason why it has been was due to the dishonesty of the FDR court
    That wasn't as much of a problem as the Circuit Courts of Appeal and their circle jerk.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #416
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Ah, repeats of ad hominems, appeals to false the authority, hasty generalizations, guilt by associations, and all weaved together with a heap of strawmen.

    That's a marvel of a post. And as far as I know, there's only one libertarian on the board who regularly reads Lew Rockwell. Personally, I think he's a crank. (Rockwell.)

    Look, it's no one's fault but yours that you didn't have the goods here. This continued blubbering over it is highly entertaining to watch.
    Harshaw - I deeply thank you for your insights and you and the other members of your gang for the insights into how things operate here. I guess I was naive and unsuspecting of the dynamics of the place. I did not realize that when you take issue with one small thing that a single libertarian posted that soon the entire gang would be at your doorstep ready to take issue with and pounce on anything you said. Truthfully, I had never experienced that before on a website discussing politics. So now I am warned and have learned that lesson. The other thing I want to thank you for is the lesson that libertarians are now firmly and unmistakably on the far right wing of the American political spectrum on most major issues of the day and have found strong allies in very conservative republicans who watch their back and are happy to join in on the attack of the non believers. On other sites I visited, this was not the case and libertarians often went to great pains to demonstrate that they were special, they were different, they could not be stereotyped on the normal political continuum the way the rest of us mere mortals could be. But here there seems to be a very natural, easy and friendly alliance with right wing republicans and right wing libertarians working seamlessly together to do battle with their hated enemies - 'the leftists'... whatever that may mean to them.

    And I agree with Harshaw that it is highly entertaining to watch. The very idea that people who obviously pat themselves on the back for thinking they are smart will argue for over ten pages simply because they cannot readily admit that judges interpret the law because one of their members attacked the hated left for doing the same thing - that is indeed highly entertaining. The whole thing reminded me of some phony wrestling match where one man had to go up against a five man tag team for an hour. It was entertaining and revealing. But in the end, you will all take comfort in a numerical error made in my post and ignore the larger reality that it was one of your owns stubbornness and bullheadedness in refusing to acknowledge the same thing in himself that he accused his enemies of. You will ignore the several outside links I provided you with stating quite clearly that courts and judges routinely interpret the law as one of their powers. You will ignore the links and authoritative sources i provided defining the power of Judicial review and how it differs from mere interpretation. Instead you will raise your flag above your clubhouse and slap each other on the back because I made a numerical error and that is enough for all of you to proudly proclaim your victory over the hated non believer.

    Its a free country so enjoy your right to do so. But I do thank you for some illuminating lessons.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-18-10 at 11:05 AM.
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  7. #417
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'll sum up at the end of the post, but I prefer to let my "crew" sing the opening verse....




    I have pages and pages of Founder comments on the 2A.

    To sum up:
    All American citizens are members of the "unorganized militia".
    The Founders, those who wrote the Constitution, clearly intended the militia, that is the people, to be as well armed as the "Standing army".
    Therefore it is not Constitutional to restrict the citizenry from owning/possessing/carrying anything that a US military Infantryman might carry as a personal weapon.
    I agree with you, but then, does it not say in it's exact words that said "militia" is "well regulated"? Who's regulating it if not the government?

  8. #418
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Harshaw - I deeply thank you for your insights and you and the other members of your gang for the insights into how things operate here. I guess I was naive and unsuspecting of the dynamics of the place. I did not realize that when you take issue with one small thing that a single libertarian posted that soon the entire gang would be at your doorstep ready to take issue with and pounce on anything you said. Truthfully, I had never experienced that before on a website discussing politics. So now I am warned and have learned that lesson. The other thing I want to thank you for is the lesson that libertarians are now firmly and unmistakably on the far right wing of the American political spectrum on most major issues of the day and have found strong allies in very conservative republicans who watch their back and are happy to join in on the attack of the non believers. On other sites I visited, this was not the case and libertarians often went to great pains to demonstrate that they were special, they were different, they could not be stereotyped on the normal political continuum the way the rest of us mere mortals could be. But here there seems to be a very natural, easy and friendly alliance with right wing republicans and right wing libertarians working seamlessly together to do battle with their hated enemies - 'the leftists'... whatever that may mean to them.

    And I agree with Harshaw that it is highly entertaining to watch. The very idea that people who obviously pat themselves on the back for thinking they are smart will argue for over ten pages simply because they cannot readily admit that judges interpret the law because one of their members attacked the hated left for doing the same thing - that is indeed highly entertaining. The whole thing reminded me of some phony wrestling match where one man had to go up against a five man tag team for an hour. It was entertaining and revealing. But in the end, you will all take comfort in a numerical error made in my post and ignore the larger reality that it was one of your owns stubbornness and bullheadedness in refusing to acknowledge the same thing in himself that he accused his enemies of. You will ignore the several outside links I provided you with stating quite clearly that courts and judges routinely interpret the law as one of their powers. You will ignore the links and authoritative sources i provided defining the power of Judicial review and how it differs from mere interpretation. Instead you will raise your flag above your clubhouse and slap each other on the back because I made a numerical error and that is enough for all of you to proudly proclaim your victory over the hated non believer.

    Its a free country so enjoy your right to do so. But I do thank you for some illuminating lessons.



    Imagine if you put this much effort into honest posting as you do into whining. Just sayin, champ.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #419
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Imagine if you put this much effort into honest posting as you do into whining. Just sayin, champ.
    Rev- not whining one bit. I am thanking you and the gang for a lesson well earned. Like Nietzsche said "that which does not kill me makes me stronger".
    __________________________________________________ _
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  10. #420
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Rev- not whining one bit. I am thanking you and the gang for a lesson well earned. Like Nietzsche said "that which does not kill me makes me stronger".

    Kudos to you.


    Anything on the actual topic?


    What is your stance on the 2nd amendment?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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