View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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    31 37.80%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #361
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Hey -- YOO HOO!!!!!

    The Supreme Court heard 12 cases prior to Marbury. 12.

    Why do you persist on saying "hundreds" when that's been pointed out to you several times already?
    You are confusing rendering a decision after a formal hearing with hearing an appeal to the Court and rejecting it or sending it back to the lower courts for action. The court meets and hears lots of cases that come to it every year without convening as a formal Court and listening to both sides in front of them.

    But fine indeed. Let us use the number of 12 as decisions if it makes you happy.

    If they did not interpret the law or the Constiution in those cases what exactly were they doing?
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-17-10 at 04:40 PM.
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  2. #362
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If they did not interpret the law or the Constiution in those cases what exactly were they doing?
    5 of those cases have been cited.
    Show the Constitutional issue in question and the ruling regarding same.

  3. #363
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    from Guy Incognito

    Marbury really is where the concept of judicial review comes from
    It was the case in which the Court took that power for itself.
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  4. #364
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    5 of those cases have been cited.
    Show the Constitutional issue in question and the ruling regarding same.
    I have no idea what you are talking about. There does NOT have to be a Constitutional issue for a court - any court - to simply interpret the law that is before it and then apply it. That is part and parcel what courts have always done.
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  5. #365
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You are confusing rendering a decision after a formal hearing with hearing an appeal to the Court and rejecting it or sending it back to the lower courts for action. The court meets and hears lots of cases that come to it every year without convening as a formal Court and listening to both sides in front of them.
    I'm not "confusing" anything, ducky. Those were the only cases before the Supreme Court from the first in 1791.

    And even your excuses don't tack. You yourself claimed they decided hundreds of cases and interpreted the constitution/laws in so doing.

    Furthermore, refusing to hear a case is NEVER -- and I do mean NEVER -- a decision on the merits, so there is no possibility of interpretation of anything there.

    But it's still preposterous, because there were hardly any cases of any kind in the court systems in general to that point. I'm not sure you'd be able to find "hundreds" of total cases in the entire federal system all the way up to 1810.

    Face it -- you were blathering about something you haven't the faintest clue about, and now you won't admit error after demanding that Goobie do so. I'm so surprised. Wait. No I'm not.


    But fine indeed. Let us use the number of 12 as decisions if it makes you happy.
    It doesn't make me happy or unhappy. It's historical fact, of which you were ridiculously ignorant.


    If they did not interpret the law or the Constiution in those cases what exactly were they doing?
    Hey, you claimed they did, so you get into the cases and show me where, and how, they did so. I already asked you to do that once.
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  6. #366
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    I have no doubt.

    There does NOT have to be a Constitutional issue...
    There does when you're trying to argue - as you are - that the court had the power to interpret the Constitution and apply it to law before Marbury.
    5 of those cases have been cited.
    Show the Constitutional issue in question and the ruling regarding same.

    (Given that you cannot, I dont really expect a meaningful reply)

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    from Harshaw


    Those were the only cases before the Supreme Court from the first in 1791.
    Those were cases in which a formal decisions was rendered from the bench. How many others came before the court but never given the privilege of a full examination with a formal decision rendered?

    There does when you're trying to argue - as you are - that the court had the power to interpret the Constitution and apply it to law before Marbury.
    Courts interpret law constantly as part of their duty.
    Simply because the Court did not rule anything as unconstitutional before Marbury does NOT mean they never applied the Constitution to one case, or five or twelve or whatever. Agreeing that a particular law does indeed meet and agree with the Constitution is interpreting the law and applying it as well as interpreting the Constitution.

    HOW CAN ANY COURT APPLY THE LAW IF THEY DO NOT EXPLAIN WHAT IT MEANS - IF NOT TO ANYONE AT LEAST THEMSELVES?????
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-17-10 at 04:56 PM.
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  8. #368
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Those were cases in which a formal decisions was rendered from the bench. How many others came before the court but never given the privilege of a full examination with a formal decision rendered?
    Whatever the answer is, it is comnpetely irrelevant to anything.
    The ONLY thing that matters is the cases they decided on.

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Harshaw




    Those were cases in which a formal decisions was rendered from the bench. How many others came before the court but never given the privilege of a full examination with a formal decision rendered?
    No, those were the only cases in front of the court -- and even one of those didn't have a "decision rendered from the court" because it was settled beforehand.

    And one more time -- you were the one who said "hundreds of decisions." You were the one who said they interpreted the laws or the constitution in "hundreds" of cases. They would only ever do that if they actually heard the case and issued a decision.

    So, you going to show where the Constitution was interpreted, and how? Or are you going to continue to dodge and try to pretend that your massive historical fail wasn't actually a fail?

    Why not just admit you were wrong? Or is that only for people who disagree with you?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  10. #370
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    and this whole thing began five pages ago with this comment from Goobieman

    The only way leftists can get anything does is to exploit the "too old, too vague, and too open to someones interpretation: nature of the Constitution.
    So I ask again of you,

    Do you agree with the leftists you criticize that the Constitution and laws are open to interpretation?
    Or do you hold that the Constitiuion and laws are NOT open to interpretation?

    Harshaw - if I erred in the number, I am sorry for doing so. Regardless if it was one case, ten cases, twelve cases or more, they had to interpret the law to do anything before them. How can they apply the law if they do not first explain what the law means at least to each other? They did this in every case before Marbury.

    There is a difference in the power to interpret the law and the power of Judicial Review. I have maintained that all along in this discussion and my error in the number of cases does not change that one iota.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-17-10 at 05:02 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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