View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #351
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Leave or stay as you see fit.
    Ah - but I have been told it is best to stay and fight to make thing better.

    from Goobie

    Did you got to school in America? -I- learned this stuff in 8th grade.
    Did I got to school in America? I do not even know what that means? "Got to School".... what does that mean.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-17-10 at 04:27 PM.
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  2. #352
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    from Goobie

    Absolutely false. This did not occour until Marbury.
    So tell me then... what did the Supreme Court do for those years they were in session when they heard hundreds of cases before the Marbury decision?

    That is a simple and direct question. If they at no time in those years ever interpreted the law, what were they doing in case after case?
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-17-10 at 04:28 PM.
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  3. #353
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    NO. Congress is not claiming the power to interpret either the Constitution of laws passed by Congress. They are simply exercising their other powers contained in Article I as best they understand them. The authority to interpret them resides in the Supreme Court. You are grossly misusing the term interpret to mean "doing what they think they can do" and it is not at all the same thing.


    You probably want to familiarize yourself with the annotations attached to legislation in which they explain what they themselves think they're doing.



    Presidents can claim anything they want to claim as a reason to do things. That is irrelevant and immaterial. They are merely exercising their powers listed in Article Ii and interpreting the law is not one of them. Again, you are grossly misusing the word 'interpreting the law' when you mean 'objecting to a law of Congress'.
    Oddly enough, I'm responding to your assertion that the other branches don't "claim" to interpret the Constitution.
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  4. #354
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Goobie
    So tell me then... what did the Supreme Court do for those years they were in session when they heard hundreds of cases before the Marbury decision?
    They decided those --12-- cases on something other than the issue of Constitutionality.
    Here's 5 of them. Point out the Constitutional issue in question and the ruling regarding same.

    Talbot v. Seeman 5 U.S. 1 1801
    Wilson v. Mason 5 U.S. 45 1801
    United States v. Schooner Peggy 5 U.S. 103 1801
    Resler v. Shehee 5 U.S. 110 1801
    Turner v. Fendall 5 U.S. 117 1801
    Last edited by Goobieman; 11-17-10 at 04:31 PM.

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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Goobie



    So tell me then... what did the Supreme Court do for those years they were in session when they heard hundreds of cases before the Marbury decision?

    That is a simple and direct question. If they at no time in those years ever interpreted the law, what were they doing in case after case?
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059107115
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #356
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The decided those --12-- cases on someting other than the issue of Constitutionality.
    But that is not the issue... never was and is not now the issue. The issue is your complete misunderstanding of two different powers of Congress
    1- the power to interpret the law and the Constitution (and I have provided several sources for this not challenged by you or anyone agreeing with you), and
    2- the power of the SC known as Judicial Review taken for itself in the 1803 Marbury case

    Again I ask you directly and simply, if the SC did not interpret either the law or the Constitution before 1803, what did they do in all those hundreds of cases they decided for year after year?
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-17-10 at 04:32 PM.
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  7. #357
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But that is not the issue... never was and is not now the issue. The issue is your complete misunderstanding of two different powers of Congress
    1- the power to interpret the law and the Constitution (and I have provided several sources for this not challenged by you or anyone agreeing with you), and
    2- the power of the SC known as Judicial Review taken for itself in the 1803 Marbury case

    Again I ask you directly and simply, if the SC did not interpret either the law or the Constitution before 1803, what did they do in all those hundreds of cases they decided for year after year?
    Hey -- YOO HOO!!!!!

    The Supreme Court heard 12 cases prior to Marbury. 12.

    Why do you persist on saying "hundreds" when that's been pointed out to you several times already?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  8. #358
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But that is not the issue... never was and is not now the issue. The issue is your complete misunderstanding of two different powers of Congress
    The powers of congress are not the issue. You cannot even keep the branches of government straight, but yet you appoint yourself judge and jury and pronounce a verdict. Amazing.

    1- the power to interpret the law and the Constitution and
    2- the power of the SC known as Judicial Review taken for itself in the 1803 Marbury case
    What you do not understand is that 1: follows from 2.

    Again I ask you directly and simply, if the SC did not interpret either the law or the Constitution before 1803, what did they do in all those hundreds of cases they decided for year after year?
    As I have already put to you in response to this:
    I cited 5 of the ---12--- cases before Marbury.
    Talbot v. Seeman 5 U.S. 1 1801
    Wilson v. Mason 5 U.S. 45 1801
    United States v. Schooner Peggy 5 U.S. 103 1801
    Resler v. Shehee 5 U.S. 110 1801
    Turner v. Fendall 5 U.S. 117 1801
    Point out the Constitutional issue in question and the ruling regarding same.

  9. #359
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Goobie



    So tell me then... what did the Supreme Court do for those years they were in session when they heard hundreds of cases before the Marbury decision?

    That is a simple and direct question. If they at no time in those years ever interpreted the law, what were they doing in case after case?
    You're fighting a losing battle here. Marbury really is where the concept of judicial review comes from. The concept of judicial review isn't invalid simply because it isn't written into the constitution, however. Marbury v. Madison is a fine example of judicial interpretivism, where the court worked within the framework and the constitution, and within the bounds of judicial modesty, to find a solution

    But the truly radical advent is not judicial review, but the concept of "originalism" or "constructionism" that are being promoted as if the Framers were some demigod heroes who could do know wrong, and the only good law is based on their Will. The fact is that we can never know what was going on in their minds. The Framers themselves were sharply divided on a number of issues. These were by and large not the issues that divide us today. We all pretty much agree that slavery is a crime and a standing army is a good thing. But the Framers fought rabidly over that kind of stuff, and the Constitution is full of their compromises. But ironically, the issues we are fighting about today are the ones they didn't even foresee, or care enough about, to fix the ambiguous language of the Constitution itself.

  10. #360
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Why do you persist on saying "hundreds" when that's been pointed out to you several times already?
    When you do not know what you're talking about, its important to remain consistent in your wrongness.
    Else you'll look like you do not know what you're talking about.

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