View Poll Results: Are restrictions on the purchase/sale of firearms constitutional?

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  • Yes

    31 37.80%
  • No

    43 52.44%
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    8 9.76%
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Thread: 2nd amendment rights.

  1. #21
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Iranian citizens who are in US jurisdiction have the same right to free speech, right to practice religion and right to keep and bear arms that US citizens do. Rights do not apply only to US citizens, when the founders said "people" they meant people. Please let me know if I can clear up any more misconceptions you have.



    LOL So then stop reading words in the Constitution that aren't there. Or else point to me where in the text of the second amendment does it say "sound mind" or "US citizen?" If you can't, you are wrong, leftie.

    Thomas Jefferson: "On every occasion...[of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves
    back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates,
    and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it,
    [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.
    " (June 12 1823, Letter to
    William Johnson)

    Samual Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United
    States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." (Convention of the Commonwealth
    of Mass., 86-87


    Nuff said...

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  2. #22
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're smarter than that. How are you going to possess arms if you can't buy them.
    Beats me. The constitution doesn't seem to cover that. I guess you have to make them yourself.

    Don't get me wrong, I get the point you're making, I just want to play devil's advocate.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #23
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The Feds have the right to regulate sales between the states. Why would not local governments have the same rights under the constitution? Making certain someone is a citizen and or a background check is not restricting a right, as a convicted felons loses those rights upon conviction. Anyone else would have no problem with either. Taxes are a given.
    Fair enough. I'm in the same vein as you mostly. I feel that some gun restrictions are okay and others aren't.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  4. #24
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    As soon as an Iranian national is considered part of the militia, you let me know.
    Your argument (or implied argument rather, since you're merely stating a conclusion with no support) is faulty. The second amendment doesn't apply to only members of the militia. So does the second amendment only apply to people who can be in the milita? Well, no.

  5. #25
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    I don't like to repeat myself, but apparently I need to:

    I'll sum up at the end of the post, but I prefer to let my "crew" sing the opening verse....


    George Mason: "I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people." (Elliott,
    Debates, 425-426)

    Richard Henry Lee: "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and
    include all men capable of bearing arms." (Additional letters from the Federal Farmer, at 169, 1788)

    Alexander Hamilton: "...that standing army can never be formidable (threatening) to the liberties
    of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in the use of arms." (Federalist Paper #29)
    I have pages and pages of Founder comments on the 2A.

    To sum up:
    All American citizens are members of the "unorganized militia".
    The Founders, those who wrote the Constitution, clearly intended the militia, that is the people, to be as well armed as the "Standing army".
    Therefore it is not Constitutional to restrict the citizenry from owning/possessing/carrying anything that a US military Infantryman might carry as a personal weapon.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #26
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Thomas Jefferson: "On every occasion...[of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves
    back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates,
    and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it,
    [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.
    " (June 12 1823, Letter to
    William Johnson)

    Samual Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United
    States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." (Convention of the Commonwealth
    of Mass., 86-87


    Nuff said...
    Quoting the Framers is like quoting the Bible, you can always find something to support your argument. Thomas Jefferson also described the establishment clause as a "wall of separation between church and state," but that doesn't make it law. We're talking about the wording of the Second Amendment itself. I don't see the word "peaceable" in the Second Amendment. Frankly, it's an contradiction that only '"peaceable" citizens should be allowed to keep and bear arms, how can you be "peacable" when fighting a war in a militia?? Probably that's why they didn't word it that way in the Second Amendment. But then again, I shouldn't speculate beyond what we know, and what we know is that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 11-14-10 at 08:52 AM.

  7. #27
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Your argument (or implied argument rather, since you're merely stating a conclusion with no support) is faulty. The second amendment doesn't apply to only members of the militia. So does the second amendment only apply to people who can be in the milita? Well, no.
    Does not matter. Even the "people" are US citizens, not foreign nationals.

    I don't consider Penn and Teller Constitutional authority's, LMAO!
    Last edited by Black Dog; 11-14-10 at 08:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #28
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Beats me. The constitution doesn't seem to cover that. I guess you have to make them yourself.

    Don't get me wrong, I get the point you're making, I just want to play devil's advocate.


    Come now, sir. You know as well as I, that playing devil's advocate is one thing; willfully setting aside logic and reason, and willfully ignoring available evidence to the contrary, is something else.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  9. #29
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Quoting the Framers is like quoting the Bible, you can always find something to support your argument. Thomas Jefferson also described the establishment clause as a "wall of separation between church and state," but that doesn't make it law. We're talking about the wording of the Second Amendment itself. I don't see the word "peaceable" in the Second Amendment. Frankly, it's an contradiction that only '"peaceable" citizens should be allowed to keep and bear arms, how can you be "peacable" when fighting a war in a militia?? Probably that's why they didn't word it that way in the Second Amendment. But then again, I shouldn't speculate beyond what we know, and what we know is that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    I have dozens of Founder quotes explaining exactly what they intended the 2A to mean.

    Show similar support for your position and your argument might be worth debating. As it is, you are simply being disingenuous. Would you seriously wish to set aside as irrelevant the words of the men who wrote the thing?

    Nonsense.
    Last edited by Goshin; 11-14-10 at 08:56 AM.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  10. #30
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    Re: 2nd amendment rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Fair enough. I'm in the same vein as you mostly. I feel that some gun restrictions are okay and others aren't.
    I am not advocating any restrictions. Being a US citizen and not crazy or a felon are not restrictions per say. Being a citizen is outright not a restriction. Being a felon you loose your rights. Crazy people are not considered responsible for their actions. These are not restrictions in that they go against the Constitution. Waiting times, gun bans etc that would stop a legal US citizen are restrictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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